zbigjeff I can imagine how that would help. The more liquid, up to any limits you can add seems to make stuffing much easier. I will have to try that & bump it up a bit.

bocephus yes, I agree! And I do appreciate all the knowledge, and opinions.

Grimpuppy don’t add it to standing water. There is a xhance it will gas out and that can cause a dangerous cloud. Now, if you want to add it to your dry seasoning and drag your meat through it then soak it overnight that will be okay. Just can’t dump large amounts into standing water!

Grimpuppy that looks great. Congrats 👍 and thanks alot. 😊

Jamieson22 With the grip and pressure I stuff the mahogany 2+" casings I get 3 pounds in each and there is no room for air. Sometimes if I use a tad extra water it too wants to seep out too!

mfrievalt
Sorry, I am not sure on granulated garlic, I like to use minced garlic at 1 ounce per 3 lbs of meat but you better like garlic!

Yes just add between 10-15% more seasoning than for the brats. Have used it with both pork and chicken to make sticks, the chicken came out very good.

Clasko2 Thanks chef, glad to hear!

Zellhouse glad you had a successful first time. It is really satisfying to make your own products at home!

Denny O they look great brother. Congrats 👍

Denny O I learned that trick from “ Eckkehard The German Butcher” on YouTube.

Any easy way is to see how many oz. and convert to Tbl spoons measure cure and seasoning like that all the time

badexpresso said in Sure Cure and Encapsulated Citric Acid Use:

To answer my own question:

What is Sure Cure (Salt for Curing Meat) - Seasoning and Additives 104

Sure Cure goes by many names Cure #1, Prague Powder, Instacure #1 , but it is all the same stuff.

They are all roughly 94% salt and 6% sodium nitrite, and all used at the recommended rate of 1 ounce per 25 lbs of meat.

MCURRAN Oh man my mouth is watering, that looks great.

Spidey Thanks!

wdaly Thank You

Dadgum. I’m so out of touch!

This Smooth Acid sounds like something I’d like to try. I’ve done 20 lbs. of Summer sausage this week, but it’s all been with ECA. Now, I like the tang, so I’m hardly upset about all this, but I’m dying to try the Smooth Acid now! As much as I do like the ECA, I expect that I will prefer the lactic acid (I usually do).

alanburkholder thus is how I do it too now 😉
That instantpot is awesome for broth making.

I don’t have any experience with it but cabbage rolls with carrot in it would be a complement I would think. Makin my mouth water!😆

cdavis thanks for the welcome

Geez looks like I need to be cleaning up a smoker! 😖

Larry Tumblin Wholey cow, look at the deep color that you achieved!! Impressive!!!

JAXALLIE welcome. As you see the answers you get here are meant to make you better . I love the non-trolling atmosphere and all the wisdom.

I bought an injector I’m gonna try for my next batch of bacon. I’m using Walton’s blue ribbon maple brine with flavor enhancer.!

B442084C-F2C1-47DF-A894-1751F4DCB8C2.png

Spidey said in Forgot the Sure Gel.:

gus4416 […], but I am not in a hurry when I make sausage.

Lol, this made me laugh! Because I’m the same way, not in a hurry…when I start! But it seems always to take more time than expected, and somehow somewhere in there I end up in a rush at the end! Usually when I hear, “Daaaaad! I’m trying to sleep for school tomorrow!!”

Jonathon Time to grow that beard out.

processhead said in A few Summer Sausage questions:

preheating the water to somewhere above the target IT temperature

On larger batch’s that is exactly what I do, I have a smaller as well as a much larger Styrofoam cooler that I use to help maintain the temp. As a brewer there are programs that even tell you what temp to go over so when grains are added the perfect temp is reached.

chippewa I usesd 17 lbs of venison and 8 lbs of pork butt, Ps seasoning 666-B , carrot binder, red pepper flakes and cheddar hot melt cheese

Basscat sure you can but you don’t need 160.
Here are the things to remember:

To kill pathogen bacteria, you need to get above 130f. At 145f it takes 5 min or so. At 160f it takes 1 second. There are charts. There are mousture requirements, sticks in a bag works fine. You need to keep the time between 40 and 130f internal temp below 6 hrs, WHILE YOU HEAT TO ABOVE 130. This is called Come Up Time, and must end in a pathogen lethality temperature/time/moisture from the tables. This is the “danger zone” within which bacteria grow.

Combine those 2 rules to dry however you’d like. Its the same starting with raw meat, or thawed stuff… just your thawed sticks won’t have as large of a bacteria load regrown yet.

So… I personally would toss all your bags into sous vide at 145 or 150, let them all get to 140f or so to reaccomplish your moist pathogen lethality treatment, THEN spread them out on trays in convection oven and dry keeping IT above 130 but below 150. Or use a dehydrator. Or stick in a temp controlled smoker with airflow.

Everything you need to know is in Appendix A for the USFDA FSIS Meat cooking booklet, google.

Anyone have the #32 Dual grinder from L*M ? Wondering if it’s worth the money?? Grind 200 to 300 a weekend would love cut down grind time …

Fritz were you going to post something about this?

Jerry Ellingson If I had to guess, I’d say it is an issue with the plate, is the 2nd grind using the same knife as the 1st grind, or do you have a knife for each plate?
mdseaside suggestion is a good one but the only thing that I can come up with is too much going down the throat at once. On the second grind, you want to add small amounts down, this will actually speed up the grind. Denny O I like the trickle term!

Another possible cause is a crack in your plate. Hit it on some solid metal, or hit it with something solid metal gently. It should have a clear ring to it. If it has a crack it is going to make it so the knife can’t seat snugly against the plate, this could cause that. HerbcoFood I think if the knife was in backwards it would have been done the same on the first grind, which sounds like it did it no problem.

Dwain Erhart
Welcome, I see you just joined, and this is your first post.
Usually, a well-written recipe is NOT for a specific meat quantity. Rather, the recipe is given as % of the meat block, or like g per kg. That way folks don’t have to convert if they want to make 1, 2 or 10kg, just easy multiply.

In this case, if you look more closely at the recipe than you did, you’ll see every ingredient is listed as grams per kg of meat. So this recipe is for 1kg meat, or 2.2 lbs. Using metric and weighing all ingredients is absolutely they way to go.

Someone else asked the exact same thing, if you just read the post right above yours… 😉

Coby Dixon said in Irish Sausage:

arnprior what size meat block is this recipe for?

arnprior said in Irish Sausage:

The recipe is in grams per kilogram… so you can scale it to the amount of meat you have.

j.michael cominskie yes 26-28

Grimpuppy yah, what you said 😉 I said not for smoking, but indeed I meant hanging them in smoker. I do like fresh 21mm sticks from smoker, laid out on racks to smoke, for kabanosy.

mrobisr I’ve been there before.

Dave in AZ thanks Dave! I appreciate the method used, I’ll certainly be trying it.

Labels look nice, sticks look yummy, but worried about labels coming off once frozen. I’ve had this issue before, if you put the labels inside bags, that would be awesome.

IVERYAN I’ve used some in the past that were years old too and never had a problem , but like you I always make sure they are well packed in salt.

John Belvedere I am thinking of adding that fan to my MB.

Jason 1
I make my Willie’s snack sticks with cheese and would recommend it for summer sausage.

Jamieson22 ohhh those look really nice.

Basscat
I’m gonna vote NO, but then I’m gonna waffle and add, fajitas often have some vinegar and lime juice in their seasoning, rest is close to taco. Soo… if you like fajitas flavor more than taco, I’d add the ECA!

Dave in AZ Looks like you got a bit. I am still splitting wood & loving it, but not like I used to & not due to age, but we just don’t burn it like we used to. We still hand split all our smoking wood though. If I recall correctly, Arizona Ash is a fast growing tree & not sure of the smoking value. A cord (not a face cord) would be 128 cubic feet, no matter how you measure it. Folks get confused with the face cord vs full cord thing & the measurements, but just stick with the 128 cubes. As far as price, I have no idea these days as we still cut our own when we need it & do not buy any & I am too poor to pay attention. Also, do everything you can to stay away from those HOAs. I got involved with them when we were still in Texas in the late 70’s, early 80’s & tried to do some good things & not a bunch of cookie cutter whatever, but it was a loosing battle, so I have made every effort to stay away from them any more if at all possible & that is the very short story.

all of my ground and formed jerky formulas have the seasoning usage the same as whole muscle

mrobisr I am right there beside you…

weirich76
1669952071111-20221201_182358.jpg

Hey, here is a pic I posted in another thread today where I froze some ground meat and fat, cut to cubes, then reground. In this case I used food processor and did this for max coldness during emulsify step.

This is what I mentioned above 😉

Ridley Acres Deepwoodsbutcher I am touched and honored…31

For snack sticks I use 1.5 oz. of water per lb. of meat.

Brendan 0 We picked up some pork loins at that price. Also picked up a few more Boston butts from albertson’s $0.97 LB. Always like to have some on hand when prices are good. Two going into the smoker tomorrow for pulled pork.

Brendan 0 I always use a binder in summer sausage it helps create a solid tube which slices great and looks good. In links carrot fiber is great due to it’s water retention for a juicier product

Sounds interesting! Would like to use some chicken breast instead of always using thigh meat. What kind of store bought seasoning? Name brand or just a local mix? Is it Italian flavored?

Ridley Acres That is a huge bird. How much did it weigh? Lots of good leftovers there.

GYoung thanks for the link

I hit up the meat counter at my local grocer for beef fat trimmings. I usually do about 15 percent.

EDaniels your brats look great 👍 congrats

Has anyone tried using Habanero BBQ summer sausage seasoning for BRATS? Added cheddar or ghost pepper HT cheese?

.koko13 f I do not add cheese to my product, but with the standard meat product adding more liquid is the key to easy stuffing. Adding more liquid on the front end then drying on the back end is the simplest solution to easy stuffing.

SWicky Welcome to the community. Everyone has their own way of doing things, if it works for you it will be fine.

Ridley Acres
My wife hides mine, but… I still have the internet!

Dave in AZ I always want to add that you shouldn’t add Soy Protein Blend or any soy based or cereal based binder to small diameter sausage as they will cause the meat to set up and make stuffing difficult/impossible depending on how thin you want the sticks.

Ridley Acres yes. Nice to get exactly what you want and work at your own pace

calldoctoday I’m pretty lucky. Our local processor is real good. He ordered me a whole case of bellies.

grinnell-locker For brats we do not even reduce the plate for the second grind, just do the second grind with the same 3/8" plate & it is perfect.

Deepwoodsbutcher You are very welcome, thank YOU!

Dave said a mouthful there, I see myself in the mirror as wanting to save at the real cost of the meat I could be disappointed with later. Well put Dave!

Dave in AZ you won’t be sorry. This is good stuff.

Larry Tumblin Very nice, good job!

johnsbrewhouse i truly do not deserve your kindness. I thank you kind sir…46

lamurscrappy
The one there probably shouldn’t be online as it is custom only. The other “standard” 6 inch one is still a special order item. The 6" standard one is $389.99.
I will probably have the custom one removed online and won’t add the other one, so if you want to buy one you’ll have to call our customer service team at 316-262-0651

ppelaez you should be fine. Just be sure you cook to 160.

Dave in AZ I found that there was more than enough pressure…maybe if the canister wasn’t full enough it could be a problem or maybe after repeated use it perhaps might become a problem…anyways, just my 2 cents

IMO it just comes down to personal preference. Some like cured meats with more sweetness or other flavorings. Others like it on the saltier side.

mrobisr
cdavis
Thx much guys. I’ve been waiting weeks for some encapsulated lactic acid samples so I could do some side by side comparison, but it looks like the account manager never sent the sample maybe… might have to press on with just eca and an eca/ela mix, and F-LC culture. Appreciate your comments.

caveman01 Sorry I’m late to the party, but the tangy can be really good if matched with certain cheeses, glad you like it.

Ridley Acres Have you ever tried boiling them and then frying/grilling them for color? That should solve your tough casing problem.

Dave in AZ this was a great thread. Lots of good info I can use. Thanks to all.

Dave in AZ yeah, it is crazy, same with bacon, cajun, or canadian… 67

Tex_77 thx, good podcast. I wanted to know more for sure, interesting guest, wish he had gotten more talk time.

andrewt cold phosphate primarily binds water to meat letting you add more water for juicier sausage and economics. Apparently also useful as a binder, but it would not be my go-to choice. I have some.

200 degrees would probably do it, especially if the smoker has temp swings and got higher in truth.

Everything stalls in a cookerat lower temps. For every meat type , shape, surface area, moistness, there is a point at which evaporation loses as much heat as is being put into the meat. So temp stops increasing until meat dries out enough… which isn’t great for some things you want moist. Reducing evaporation by increasing humidity in oven helps. Also, you only get most smoke flavor below 140f, above that meat is cooked and impermeable to smoke… so a lot of folks pull sausage, snacksticks, brisket off then and finish it sealed up to retain moisture somehow. Briskets get wrapped in foil or paper and oven finished often. Snacksticks you can toss into a sous vide and finish in 30 min. Bunch of threads here on doing that.

djohnsonfire said in Cooking stall in my smoker HELP:

Dr_Pain said in Cooking stall in my smoker HELP:

@dennyo said in Cooking stall in my smoker HELP:

Dr_Pain said in Cooking stall in my smoker HELP:

@dennyo said in Cooking stall in my smoker HELP:

Dr_Pain said in Cooking stall in my smoker HELP:

Sheesh! I need to get back to cooking so I can compete with you guys. That is some good looking product

Doc, you just take care of you first! Take your meds now so you can make your meals later!!

Getting better everyday. I made a dish last night (from my childhood) that I will share soon. It is a simple all in one and cooked in the microwave. Simple enough and TASTY!!!

Ohh, Very glad to hear! Push yourself mindfully a little and keep it slow and steady.

Mindfully is the word of the day!!! Thanks DennyO

I saw this post in the unread feed, and I thought Dr_Pain was back…guess not yet. Hopefully you are doing well Claude, wherever you are!

Is there anything different that you’re supposed to do when using super bind vs. the sure gel binder? I have used sure gel for many years without issue and when it was sold out I tried some of the super bind and the outcome was not good. So bad in fact I tossed the small batch of snack sticks and brats I used in the test. Everything was measured correctly but I did hand mix since it was a small batch. I’ve used carrot binder before without issue and super bind is supposed to be a mix of that and potato starch. The end result was dry, clumpy and I could taste the binder. The meat looked fine before smoking. Not enough water? Not mixed well enough?

bleathery Wow, that looks really good. Great Job!

Jonathon I can definitely taste that with the hog jowls.

If you allow a salted blend to sit in the refrigerator, it will continue extracting protein through 72 hrs and get stiffer even without ore mechanical mixing. Even 6 hrs in the refrigerator you should be able to tell a difference.

Jonathon is spot on about the moist heat, it is the only defense we have against E. coli. Dave and DWB are spot on about the low heat and extended time, good luck.

Mcjagger That will be in my next batch for pork belly bacon. Back then when I was asking I already had one and a half whole belly in brine.
On my June 23rd comment about deer bacon, that will now be coming up in the next months. I put it on hold last June as I ended up with too many irons in one fire!

Snacks I would use whole bag for 25 lbs. Snacksticks are usually saltier and more flavor than a brat.
Brats are 1.7% salt usually, so using whole pack in 15 lb meat gives 2.8% salt. I make bacon at 3% salt, costco is 5%. I make Canadian bacon at 2.5% salt, and ham at 2%.
Slim Jims ate 4.0% salt.
That gives you some bumbers to guess how salty you want your snacksticks.

wvhunter1965
Oh also, as a reference, I use Willie’s snackstick seasoning at recommended levels. But then I dry my snacksticks to maybe 70% original weight, so not quite as much as restructured jerky 50%. I’m happy with the salt and spice, but it is at the very top end of salty. So I’d go 50 to 70% recommended usage if using Willie’s.

Dave in AZ said in Guanciale, Have you made it?:

Taste of Italy

That is my go-to since it has the bio protection added.

OleSmokey about $1.89# in central Michigan

mrobisr thanks for the update

Salt should be more than 1.8% of meat weight to extract the muscle protein & create bind. If the seasoning is very acidic, it can coagulate the protein so it won’t stick
together - adding baking soda at 1% of seasoning weight should reduce the acid level enough to prevent this. High temperature or a big temperature rise through a mechanical step like grinding or stuffing would smear the fat so the protein can’t encapsulate it - should be less than 38F in the casing. If you measure temperature before grind and after grind, goal would be a temperature rise less than 4F and same for before and after stuffing. If any of these fit your circumstances.

If you are wanting a true chipped beef, SOS then it is not smoked which removes a level of preservation. While I have not done venison I have experimented with lean beef and will share my experiences. First it must be cured or frozen or the fat will go rancid quicker than I like. Here is my first experience https://meatgistics.waltons.com/topic/5284/dried-beef-for-chipped-beef/23?page=2.
I will highly suggest cure#1 and with that you will have the perfect SOS meat that will keep for a very long time.

Butcher67 I am following this thread also as I would like to try a drier batch of sticks myself.

Denny O I own a TruHone and it works great.

I have also determined that when the translation says cutter aid it is referring to the addition of phosphate and ascorbic acid can be substituted with sodium erythrobate.

cdavis thanks had posted before but what the hay.