@dcastro that is hard to answer. There are so many variables. Type of smoker amount of water used air flow and humidity in your smoker. I use a masterbuilt and it can take anywhere from 8 to 12 hours. I know this isn't much help. Sorry
I realize there are variables that will cause cooking times to vary but can you give me a ballpark idea of how long it takes the sticks to reach 160 deg at the 175 deg setting at the end? I'm trying to plan how much time I will need to complete the cooking process.
@johnsbrewhouse Thanks for fast reply! I did read through that, I just wasn't sure if it was different when using the sweeter than sweet cure since the product page for that said 1.75lb to 1 gallon for a 10% pump.
Thanks again for clarifying.
@janderson Go here and you will get some of your answers. You don't have to add the spices, they are not necessary to making ham. It may be a bit not like the ham you get from the store, but you can add the spices when you cook it. Inject to 20% of green weight, the a 50% brine to soak. Here is the link to the ham making page. https://meatgistics.waltonsinc.com/topic/203/how-to-make-homemade-smoked-ham-recipe
Hopefully you see this in time! I'm curing hams with my high school class. We have the Sweeter than Sweet Cure and Sure Gel. Question 1: Is it going to taste bad without the ham spice? Can we add some spices to it if that's the case? Question 2: if we mix at a 1.75lb cure to 1 gallon water ratio do we inject to 20% of the green weight or 10%? I've read both now as I've been researching and I'm panicking as we are doing this tomorrow morning. I thought I knew what I was doing until I found 2 different answers. Whoops!
@benj11317 1 and 2 you are all good on. Yeah, you can overmix but you won't, or likely won't at least. For the thermal processing check out what we (and many others) have done here (https://meatgistics.waltonsinc.com/topic/1099/cured-sausage-205-advanced-thermal-processing pay attention to the section on finishing in water and more importantly the comments of that video) and here (https://meatgistics.waltonsinc.com/topic/2532/help-learning-water-bath-finishing-summer-sausages?_=1633696582783 ) with a sous vide cooker. It can also be done in a large roasting pan or something but it makes the entire process far, far easier and faster.
Thank you for the quick reply! I will give it a go with the above suggestions and we will see how it turns out. I think I’m going to use a beef/pork blend to start. Ideally, I will be using a venison/pork mixture after I process a deer this year.
@benj11317
1. I've used a KitchenAid mixer to do around 3 lb batches before. You might be able to get away with 5 lbs, or you could split it and do 2 rounds in the mixer. It seemed to work out pretty well for the small batch.
2. I think it's technically possible, but you're much more likely to not mix enough. Just watch a few of the Walton's YouTube videos on cured sausages and watch how sticky and stretchy it looks when properly mixed.
3. I've never tried with charcoal before. I use my pellet grill which doesn't control down to 145 either. I put a thermometer in there and prop the lid open slightly. I watch it pretty closely for the first hour or so and fiddle with the lid to try and keep temps in the right range. After that you can slowly bring it up a bit higher to finish off the smoke. You just don't want to be too hot or you'll run into things like case hardening, fat out (the fat liquifies and runs all over, especially if good protein extraction wasn't achieved), and of course the outside being done before the inside.
Take it slow and enjoy your first batch! Don't get frustrated if things don't go perfectly. Just check back in and let us know how it went. Cured sausages can take a little bit of practice, but are definitely worth it!
Hello, I am looking to try my first batch. I will be receiving H summer seasoning, sure gel, and encapsulated citric acid today. A couple of questions:
1. Can I used a kitchen aid mixer with a paddle attachment to mix? (I will be doing a small batch to start, likely less than 5 pounds)
2. Can you over mix? From reading, it looks like you can definitely under mix and not achieve proper protein extraction.
3. I use a charcoal barrel house smoker. It’s relatively difficult to keep the temp low and consistent. Any suggestions here? Or could I do like 180 degrees, the entire smoke, until internal temp reaches 145? Alternatively, is the oven an option?
Appreciate it!
@calldoctoday said in [Seasoned French Fries \- Recipe](/post/49481):
> @dr_pain Well, that is doing just about what Chef was doing with oil, basically a blanch. You are doing it with water though, like normal blanching. Interesting.
Absolutely!.... but the vinegar does do something quite different. The blanching in water and some vinegar and doing a double fry vs. just a double fry will produce 2 different end products. Try it, you will be amazed
@dr_pain Well, that is doing just about what Chef was doing with oil, basically a blanch. You are doing it with water though, like normal blanching. Interesting.
@chef I have tried that too, on several things. I just never seemed to get that much difference on the re-fry vs the one fry. Getting the starches, etc. out with the Ice Water bath & drying them though, seemed to make a lot of difference. I keep thinking I tried pre-salting them once too & drying them, but that did not go so well either as I seem to recall. It has been a long time though. I think the difference in your method though is the low heat quick fry, more like a blanch just about, but with oil. Then the set, before refrying. That sounds interesting & I will have to try it some day soon.
@austin I wondered where those painted nails came from, but refrained. You answered it though. So, you really like that Air Frying gadget, huh? A lot of folks seem to really like them, but I have been leery, as usual any more? Once you get me to endorse it though, you know it has to be good.
@chef said in [Seasoned French Fries \- Recipe](/post/49446):
> @dr_pain In New Orleans, the original Po Boy sandwiches were made during the depression by a restaurant called Martin Brothers. One of their sandwiches was French Fries on Po Boy bread with mayonnaise and brown gravy.
>
> This was on of my dad's favorite sandwiches.
Yea, I remember the story of those brothers and when I heard about that French Fries PoBoy I had to make one in honor of those guys (about 10 years ago) but I had it laced with cheese curds making it a poutine PoBoy ;)
Speaking on French fries and mayo, I corrupted my whole family. That is the main way they like their fries and the only way I eat mine. Straight mayo, seasoned mayo etc... I guess it is in my genetics since my family originated from a small area near the Belgium border (although they migrated to Canada well before French fries were invented LOL!
@dr_pain In New Orleans, the original Po Boy sandwiches were made during the depression by a restaurant called Martin Brothers. One of their sandwiches was French Fries on Po Boy bread with mayonnaise and brown gravy.
This was on of my dad's favorite sandwiches.
@chef said in [Seasoned French Fries \- Recipe](/post/49443):
> @calldoctoday Seasoning is one thing, soggy potatoes are another.
>
> Only one way to get a truly crispy French Fry, that is to remove the high percentage of water that is in a potato.
>
> This is done using a twice fry method. For the first fry, cut the potatoes as you like. Fry them at 250'F for about 4 minutes. There should be no color to the fries. At this point you are just removing the water from the potato. Let sit to up to a few hours. Heat the oil when ready for the final fry.
>
> For the second fry, heat the oil to about 345 to 350'F. Fry the potatoes for about 5 minutes, or to a color you like. Remove from oil and then season how you prefer.
Hey @Chef I have a slightly different technique you might enjoy for some CRISPY twice fried potatoes.
- Cut your potatoes 1/4" thick and boil them for about 8 minutes in a big pot of water with a 1/4 cup of vinegar.
- Remove them from the water and place on a cooling rack and put them in the freezer
- Remove from the freezer and fry them at 325F until they are barely changing color (maybe 3-4 minutes)
- Drain them on paper towel and put them back in the freezer
- Whenever you are ready to eat, pre-heat your oil at 375F and cook until desired color is achieved
This is the basic way I cook my fried when I make Poutine :)
(I know, French Canadians and their stupid Poutine LOL!)
P.S. Cheese curds we’re home made
@calldoctoday Seasoning is one thing, soggy potatoes are another.
Only one way to get a truly crispy French Fry, that is to remove the high percentage of water that is in a potato.
This is done using a twice fry method. For the first fry, cut the potatoes as you like. Fry them at 250'F for about 4 minutes. There should be no color to the fries. At this point you are just removing the water from the potato. Let sit to up to a few hours. Heat the oil when ready for the final fry.
For the second fry, heat the oil to about 345 to 350'F. Fry the potatoes for about 5 minutes, or to a color you like. Remove from oil and then season how you prefer.
@calldoctoday I've done it different ways before. Technically I didn't do this one though. This was back when my sister was working for me and this is one she did. Now...I'd probably air fry them. I hardly fry anything anymore since I added an air fryer to my arsenal a year or two ago.
@austin I was surprised to see that you were not giving the potatoes an ice water bath & then drying them real well before frying. Have you ever tried that?
@keoni02 Sounds good and looks good. I've used the mild Italian sausage seasoning for burgers 🍔and man was that a big hit around my house. Have a great day.
So I realize this isn't about making sticks however tonight I used the Honey BBQ Snack Stick Seasoning (using the 2lb conversion ratio) to make burgers topped with provolone cheese.... AMAZING!!!!
@Sincitylv It all makes a difference, might not be a huge difference but as we try to say often, its when you add up all the little tips and tricks that yous ee real improvement. I would recommend cutting them and laying them out so it is just a straight run from side to side. Even spacing throughout willlet the air flow more evenly around and give you a little more even of a cook.
Most important thing when doing it on the woodwind is to start your smoker with the product already in the smoker. This will give the meat a small conditioning phase to start with.
I will be making my second batch of snack sticks with all of your products. The first batch was very successful and the best I have ever done. My question is this, I smoke the sticks on my Camp Chef 36" woodwind pellet grill so last time last time I just bent the long strands back and forth on my racks and then cut to size after cooling and letting air dry and sit in the fridge until that evening. Would it be better to cut at least to the length of the jerky racks so I could keep consistancy in spacing the sticks or does it not really make a difference? Also, I didn't place any water in the unit but kept the lid propped open to keep the temp down until I elevated up the temp scale so would the water make much of a difference in your opinion. I am in the desert of Nevada so not a lot of natural humidity. Love the site and products! Thanks.
@jonathon Thanks! I went with the regular one. Normally, I would be full in on the MSG version, but being my first time, I didn't want to buy such a big bag.
@Midwest_kc I use it at about full strength, so if you bought this one https://www.waltonsinc.com/bacon-taste-booster then it is 1.25 oz per 25 lb, if you bought this one https://www.waltonsinc.com/bacon-taste-booster-msg then it is 2 oz per 25 lb.
However, anytime I add a new ingredient I always add small amounts while I am mixing and then I pan fry a little to see where I am at in regards to taste, so I would say use 1/2 what I recommended above and then stop there if you are happy but add more if you think it can take it. Good luck!
@jonathon I haven't. I had just seen multiple people on here recommend to use it with this particular seasoning. How much should I use on a 25 lb batch?
@Midwest_kc Yes, smoked meat stabilizer is something you could use instead of the Encapsulated Citric Acid for sure. It will still impart somewhat of a tang but not as much as the ECA would. Another option is sodium erythorbate but you need a very accurate scale for that that can read fractions of grams. I love that you are using the booster, have you tried it before? We used to tell people not to use it even if they were making imitation bacon....now I tell people to feel free to toss it into anything bacony!
Making my first snack sticks soon, going to be ordering a couple things I need, so want to make sure I have it all. I am making pork sticks, with the maple bacon seasoning. I will also be using bacon booster, and sure gel....but trying to decide if I want the tang from ECA. Would smoked meat stabilizer work as well in this set up, so that we can have maple-y, bacon-y goodness?
@keoni02 that would be sodium erythorbate or smoked meat stabilizer. The sodium erythorbate will not impart any flavor change but you must have a very accurate measuring device as the recommended amount is 7/8ths of an ounce for 100 lbs of product. The smoked meat stabilizer will give a slight tang but not as much as ECA. However, without the equipment to measure water activity and ph levels you still should not treat it as a shelf stable product. I’d still freeze til ready to consume then thaw and refrigerate for no longer than a week
Never thought about that. I mean I wash my equipment before use and lay parchment paper down on my counter top as well for an extra barrier while stuffing. But didn't really think about it in helping with shelf life
@keoni02 said in [How To Make Homemade Snack Sticks](/post/37037):
> I have a question as far as curing and shelf life. Aside from sure cure, what else can be used aside from the encapsulated citric acid to help with the curing and having the snack sticks last longer? I honestly don't like the tang that the citric acid produces.
We see a lot of questions about ingredients that will extend shelf life and probably not enough discussion about general cleanliness of equipment, work surfaces, hands, and ingredients. This, and proper thermal processing is where you need to start.
If you start with clean ingredients that have been properly stored at cold temperatures, then the goal is to keep them that way through thermal processing.
This will take you a long way towards extending the shelf life. Commercial processors live and breath sanitation at their facilities for this exact reason.
We see a lot of questions about ingredients that will extend shelf life and probably not enough discussion about general cleanliness of equipment, work surfaces, hands, and ingredients.
If you start with clean ingredients that have been properly stored at cold temperatures, then the goal is to keep them that way throughout processing.
This will take you a long way towards extending the shelf life. Commercial processors live and breath sanitation of their facilities for this exact reason.
I have a question as far as curing and shelf life. Aside from sure cure, what else can be used aside from the encapsulated citric acid to help with the curing and having the snack sticks last longer? I honestly don't like the tang that the citric acid produces.
@jonesy
Yep. Lifted the skin above the breast and seasoned. Coated the outside as well. A little butter doesn't hurt. Perhaps some olive oil. In fact... just shove some butter in every orifice :thinking_face: , season to your heart's content and enjoy.
@jonesy
Ran across the same thing a couple years back. Was going to brine the bird until I read the label. Smoked it as is. Just added seasoning to it. Came out great. Think it was a Butterball but not certain.
Definitely would not want to inject and over salt it.
This may come off as rather elementary, but if I'm confused, a hundred other people probably are too. My son-in-law dropped off the 2 frozen turkeys for me to smoke. I read on the wrapping that they contain 9.5% turkey broth, salt, sodium phosphates, sugar & flavoring. Does this mean I should not inject and brine prior to putting them in the smokehouse? Will it be a waste of my Walton's Turkey Cure, and my Cold Phosphate? I've got eight days to figure it out before I fire up the smokehouse.
@processhead - Had the smokehouse up to around 250 for a while, when I made my first batch of jerky. As long as I preheat with lump charcoal, I think it should be OK. That's the plan, at least for now.
@jonesy said in [How To Make Homemade Cured & Smoked Turkey \- Recipe](/post/36500):
> So, my son-in-law says to me...ok, since you're reviving the old smokehouse, I've got a couple of turkeys in the freezer to get rid of. How about you smoke them for me? Now I've got to peruse the vast knowledge base here and educate myself enough to give it a try. This is fun stuff! I'm on a mission.
One important condition for using your smoke house is that it be able to get up to and maintain 200 degrees. That can be tough for some traditional smoke houses made of concrete block or other uninsulated material.
You would be wise to do some dry runs in the smoke house while monitoring the temperature before taking on the turkeys.
So, my son-in-law says to me...ok, since you're reviving the old smokehouse, I've got a couple of turkeys in the freezer to get rid of. How about you smoke them for me? Now I've got to peruse the vast knowledge base here and educate myself enough to give it a try. This is fun stuff! I'm on a mission.
@twilliams said in [How To Make Homemade Snack Sticks](/post/35451):
> @keoni02 like McCormick artificail bacon flavored bits or real bacon cut up into bits pieces?
Two pounds of bacon fried up then put through the food processor to make my own bacon bits.
Not a fan of prepackaged bacon bits. And, I buy the "irregular slices" so it's cheaper too
I use a cold smoke generator and a few inexpensive electric burners to get the lower temperatures with smoke. There are a bunch of cold smoke generators out there, but I use one called the Big Kahuna from smokedaddyinc. Oftentimes, I don't even bother with the pellets and just vacuum seal the snack sticks and throw them in a sous vide bath at 155 degrees for about 60 minutes to finish them off.
@randyman Another option would be to start them in the oven and transfer to the smoker/grill or add hickory smoke powder and leave in the oven to finish or bring to temp and finish SV.
Yeah-I talked to my son today who has a pellet smoker and he told me the same thing. Sounds like someone needs a new smoker that will start low and slow! R!
@randyman No pellets, no heat source. They create the smoke and the heat, cracking the door will drop the temperature but will also increase the amount of pellets being used since the thermostat will try to keep the temps up.
I don't have a pellet smoker and not sure if this will work but what if you don't put any pellets in the hopper and crack open the lid? A remote thermometer would let you know what your temp is inside the cooker. After an hour at 125 and then an hour at 145 you'd be able to add pellets and set the temp for 160 for 2 hours. Then set the temp for 175 till the snack sticks reach 155 internal. Hope you can find a way to make it work. Randy.
@beefstickgirl said in [How To Make Homemade Snack Sticks](/post/35029):
> @keoni02
> I have a pellet smoker and the lowest temp it will go is 160/ how do I go about smoking low and slow so my casings don't pop
Your options are limited since this type of smoker is not really designed to process sausage.
One thing you can is try is to crack the door so all the heat is not contained inside.
The problem is, If your smoker has temperature controls, it may just try and compensate for the temperature drop by feeding more pellets and air to the fire pot.
Allllllll riiiighty... so, some test batches are done. First group is the "surprise" batch I've been working on. Unfortunately I apparently didn't stuff them as well so texture isn't where I'd like it 😔 but the flavor is BACON CHEESE BURGER!!!!
Yes, actual bacon bits are in there!
Center batch is Honey BBQ which turned out perfect! The small batch at the right is using the Parmesan Garlic Bratwurst seasoning and it turned out pretty good.
Overall, very happy with today's outcome
@lkrfletcher said in [How to Make Homemade Summer Sausage \- Recipe](/post/34686):
> @processhead - I have put cubed goose breast in with some cubed elk meat into a chili that came out incredibly tender in the slow cooker. Just thought I would mention it.
I have a good friend that shoots a lot of geese and he has figured out how to turn it into pretty good jerky and snack sticks.
Wild goose can be a little challenging. I will have to suggest chili as another use for goose.
@processhead - I have put cubed goose breast in with some cubed elk meat into a chili that came out incredibly tender in the slow cooker. Just thought I would mention it.
I usually have a freezer full of game, so I am generally looking for new ways to use up venison trimmings and game birds. This usually means my sausage recipes are venison/pork or venison beef.
This might be a bit limiting on my part, since I don't automatically think of recipes using just domestic red meat.
My focus has always been figuring out new way to make wild game meat into something really good and share that with other hunters looking for ways to utilize the harvest.
So I made up the pork cheddar summer sausage the other day. It was a bit of a s---- show, with my pellet cooker having issues, so I ended up doing them mostly in the oven and then sous vide. It's good, but certainly not what I would call summer sausage. More of a ham loaf, or something of the sort. I'll tell ya though, with some more cheese and some crackers? I ate it up!
So, while I didn't get what I was necessarily after, I'm calling my first crack at cured/smoked sausage a success. I have some wagyu beef brisket trimmings that I'm going to turn into snack sticks next, and I'm going to work on changing my jalapeno cheddar fresh sausage into a cured one.
Thanks to everyone for all the help I've received over the last few months as I've gotten into this. You guys rock!
@johnnyr @Jonathon more of a question such as above with the parmesan garlic how much seasoning to make snack sticks. I wasnt sure if it would have too much salt content for snack sticks or vice versa
@jonathon
My name is Johnny Radford. I’m from Illinois. I started making my own deer sticks this year using Waltons seasonings. And everyone that has tried them really liked them. The question T. Williams told me to ask you is: is it feasible for me to use the cheeseburger cheddarwurst brat seasoning to make deer sticks?
@jonathon said in [How To Make Homemade Snack Sticks](/post/34510):
> @keoni02 "Surprise snack stick is the the name of new band, called it"
>
> Shoot, it isnt there, if you are referring to https://www.waltonsinc.com/parmesan-garlic-bratwurst-seasoning then it would be .8 of an oz of seasoning for 2 lb of meat if this was a regular fresh brat you were making but for a snack stick you will want to use that amount of seasoning to 1.6 lb of meat, or to go the other way 1 oz of seasoning to 2 lb of meat. That second one might not be 100% correct but it would be really close.
For the adjustments to seasoning and meat, I get those same numbers, we are either both right or both wrong, but I'm betting right:+1:
@keoni02 "Surprise snack stick is the the name of new band, called it"
Shoot, it isnt there, if you are referring to https://www.waltonsinc.com/parmesan-garlic-bratwurst-seasoning then it would be .8 of an oz of seasoning for 2 lb of meat if this was a regular fresh brat you were making but for a snack stick you will want to use that amount of seasoning to 1.6 lb of meat, or to go the other way 1 oz of seasoning to 2 lb of meat. That second one might not be 100% correct but it would be really close.
@jonathon said in [How To Make Homemade Snack Sticks](/post/34455):
> @processhead It is a combination of that and the fact that the salt content 'needs" to be higher in the cured sausages because the salt plays a functional role as well as taste. Good question.
I just re-read my question and realized I misread what you wrote. ie misread decrease the meat amount as decrease the seasoning amount.
Yeah, decreasing the meat so the salt level is proportionally higher makes sense to me.
Yes, processed, that is the seasoning I was looking at trying. I really want to try a Parmesan Garlic flavor of beef snack sticks. I've been only doing 2lb test batches as it is. And I have been frying up meat to test, as you mentioned Jonathan, however the fried bit always has a different flavor than the smoked... a stronger and better flavor when fried than smoked. Honestly, kinda disappointing flavor smoked cause it is so subdued compared to fried.
Jonathan, I already know the amount of cure I need for a two pound batch but what would I use for the seasoning? I looked at the conversion chart but it wasn't listed.
@processhead It is a combination of that and the fact that the salt content 'needs" to be higher in the cured sausages because the salt plays a functional role as well as taste. Good question.
@jonathon said in [How To Make Homemade Snack Sticks](/post/34440):
> @keoni02 I agree with @processhead (as usual) make a small batch to test it out. I would start at using it at a ratio of 4/5th the amount of meat (20 lb of meat to a 25 lb batch of seasoning) and then just fry up the results to see how it goes. Absolutely use sure cure if you are going to smoke it.
Just curious Jonathon, is reducing the seasoning by 4/5 because of the added drying and overall moisture loss in the meat during thermal processing?
@keoni02 I agree with @processhead (as usual) make a small batch to test it out. I would start at using it at a ratio of 4/5th the amount of meat (20 lb of meat to a 25 lb batch of seasoning) and then just fry up the results to see how it goes. Absolutely use sure cure if you are going to smoke it.
@keoni02
I am not sure if I can answer your question, but here are some things to think about.
Most bratwurst recipes are fresh sausage recipes and have less salt and no added cure.
Most snack stick recipes are a cured and cooked product that have somewhat higher salt levels to aid with shelf stability and curing.
Assuming you wanted to make a bratwurst flavored snack stick, I think you would need to adjust the salt levels and add cure before cooking/smoking.
The result would be something with quite a different flavor profile than a freshly grilled fresh bratwurst. You would taste the seasoning, but being cured and cooked/smoked it would be different.
@Midwest_kc I'd say around 90% of the time my summer sausage is always just pork and I always love the taste of it. Probably not what most people would consider traditional but it is tasty!
@gchart said in [How to Make Homemade Summer Sausage \- Recipe](/post/34152):
> I'd be curious to hear of your results of you do try it. Mine is almost always 50/50 venison and pork butt. But sometimes those pork butts are so darn cheap, I'll likely forgo the venison at some point when I want to do some experimentation.
I'm going to try it this week. I'll let you know. I think I'm also putting some cheddar in it because I have extra high temp cheddar sotto g around I need to probably use.
I'd be curious to hear of your results of you do try it. Mine is almost always 50/50 venison and pork butt. But sometimes those pork butts are so darn cheap, I'll likely forgo the venison at some point when I want to do some experimentation.
