Sausage making question.
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Okay so Im no newb for the most part as Ive been making several different sausages for close to 10 years now. The thing with mine are they are usually, meat, spice, stuff and eat. I smoke several kinds as well. From browsing the word I see threads talking about these powders and binders and stuff that people add to their sausage. Ive never used these before and really don’t know what they are for. Any advice on that is welcomed! My main question is that I have a few recipes that have a lot of spices in them and I think the texture is slightly off. Could it be that the spices are altering the bind and I need to add a binder to tighten it up a bit? For instance a curry sausage I make has a bit of curry powder in addition to other spices. Anyway, Im learning as I go and its a wonderful learning experience, so any advice or resources would be great. Thanks.
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cayenneman you sound exactly like I pretty much was over the last 24 years or so. I never used a binder and I always mixed my own spices to stuff into sausages I have made. Honestly I cant speak for the binders as I still have never tried any so I cant give an opinion. But I can say that the pre seasoned packages from Waltons are the best I have ever made. Everything I have tried has been superb to anything I could blend. You will get a while lot of responses on the benefits just not from me…yet…good luck and I hope to see pics on jere from your making!
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blackbetty61 Team Blue Regular Contributors Canning Green Mountain Grill Veteran Cast Ironreplied to cayenneman on last edited by blackbetty61
cayenneman I’ve only been using binders for a year, before that I never used them either until finding Walton’s website. From what I gather is the binder helps the fat bind to the meat so there’s less of a chance of fat out which is when the fat gets between the casing and meat and it helps your meat retain moisture…I believe…by the way your at the right place…meatgistics has a ton of good information, I’ve only tried the carrot fiber one can’t speak of the other ones but the carrot fiber holds a lot of water Walton’s has some great videos on binders and such
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cayenneman What blackbetty61 says about the binders is true, it is the best thing to add to help prevent fatting out. The Sure Gel and the Soy Protein Blend both speed up and help with protein extraction as they are adding more protein to the mix and they are designed to “gum up” and bind things together. The Carrot Fiber doesn’t add any protein but it can hold up to 26 times its weight in water so it does a great job in keeping your sausage moist. The Super Bind is a blend of Carrot Fiber and Potato Starch. It gives you the water holding ability of the carrot and the potato starch turns into a gel at just about the same temperature as meat will start to expel its water, so it absorbs all of that and keeps it in the sausage.
Ingredients of the seasoning absolutely play a role in forming the consistency of the sausage, this is especially true of salt content. If you are looking to firm up your sausage my first recommendation would be to follow deplorablenc1’s advice and go with a pre-packaged seasoning. However, if you want to keep using your homemade recipe then I would use either Super Bind or Sure Gel, the Super Bind is a little more expensive than the other binders but it is worth it when trying to correct a problem.
Post pics when it is done!
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Hello , I have a question about pork fat in venison sausage, almost every recipe I have read calls for pork fat, or pork shoulder, or both. What is better and does it matter if its going into fresh sausage or dried cured sausage? Also what about pork belly, I know its more expensive but to me it just looks like the perfect pork mixture of fat and lean, any thoughts or experience with using pork belly?
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processhead Power User Regular Contributors Smoker Build Expert Bowl Choppers Nebraska Veteran Team Camoreplied to pepaw on last edited by processhead
pepaw said in Sausage making question.:
Hello , I have a question about pork fat in venison sausage, almost every recipe I have read calls for pork fat, or pork shoulder, or both. What is better and does it matter if its going into fresh sausage or dried cured sausage? Also what about pork belly, I know its more expensive but to me it just looks like the perfect pork mixture of fat and lean, any thoughts or experience with using pork belly?
ThanksThe key principle here is to get the right balance of lean meat to fat and this applies to fresh and cured sausages.
If you are starting with venison for the lean meat, you can assume it is nearly 100% lean and zero fat.
The challenge when using a very lean meat like venison is that it takes a lot of fat to get to a good ratio for making sausage and most of the readily available fresh meats are already trimmed of most of the fat you want.
Sometime it can be difficult to get enough fat from a cut like a pork butt because the pork butt is only 25% fat and the rest is just lean meat like the venison. Unless you only use the trimmed fat cap from several pork butts, it can be impossible to add enough whole pork butt to lean venison to get the right lean to fat ratio for typical sausage styles.
I will usually try to find a source of pure fat or high fat content trimmings. Using a pork belly is a way to do that, but it is also very expensive. If you are trimming your own pork, an untrimmed shoulder roast can have a relatively high fat content.
A better option is to find a source locally that cuts pork and is willing to supply you with fatty pork trimmings. The higher the fat content, the better. Some places cut beef and end up with surplus beef fat which will also work, but is not as desirable as pork fat.
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Dave in AZ Military Veterans Sous Vide Canning Traeger Power User Arizona Dry Cured Sausage Dry-Cured Expertreplied to pepaw on last edited by
pepaw
All of what processhead said
Most all books and quality recipe sources recommend 20 to 30% fat, and everyone who has tested that will tell you more is better. So if you use pork shoulder/butt with 20-25% fat, with 0% fat venison, you can never achieve enough. Unless you use trimmings like Paul says above.Pork butt fat is better than belly fat, it is firmer and harder. Belly will work, but way expensive. I would just go buy some fatty pork shoulder for 1.99$ per lb today at all Frys/Kroger outlets, use the fat, and save the butt for nice pulled pork, roast pork, etc.
Also, everyone usually says pork fat tastes better, but I find that brisket fat still tastes quite good to me. I use brisket fat in my Johnsonville clone brats now and love them. So brisket fat is easy to get when you cook a brisket and trim it off. I also like it a lot in venison snack sticks, because it gives a nice beefy flavor and I like beef snacksticks.
Anyways, just some options. The last of the 3 I would use is pork belly, primarily from cost view but also firm fat that doesn’t render.
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Hello, I have been over researching recipes and information about dry curing venison sausage , I have found a recipe that suits me. I have some concerns about the fermentation period. My recipe calls for insta cure # 2 and starter culture T-SPX, so I think thats all good.
Hang to ferment for 18 hours at 80 degrees F. and 90% humidity, then cold smoke for 4-6 hours, then hang in drying chamber at 55 degrees and 85% humidity for a week then drop humidity to 75% until dry. Does this sound right? I have never fermented any sausage, and the temperature is concerning but just want to make sure, Thanks
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Dave in AZ Military Veterans Sous Vide Canning Traeger Power User Arizona Dry Cured Sausage Dry-Cured Expertreplied to pepaw on last edited by Dave in AZ
pepaw those all sound accurate for the required temps and humidity for the process.
Recommend you buy book, Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausages, by Stanley and Adam Marianski. Fermented sausage has critical knowledge required, if you mess it up people get sick. It has all the info you need. A shorter book on just fermented ones like salami, is The Art of
Making Fermented Sausages, same authors.Also, feel free to start your own new thread when you have a new question instead of adding to an unrelated 4 yr old thread, will make finding info easier for future readers
Lastly, WELCOME!
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bocephus Team Orange Power User Canning Masterbuilt Regular Contributors Veteran New Mexico Sous Vide Gardeningreplied to cayenneman on last edited by
cayenneman I still make some sausage with my own seasoning mix, but I do like the quality I get from Walton’s mixes and also use some of them for sausage.
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processhead I’ve been trying to increase the fat percentage in the Summer Sausage I make. In the past I’ve used 17lbs venison to 8lbs of pork butt and things have turned out good, but maybe with not as much flavor as I would like. I tried to increase the fat content to 30% in a 5lb batch and most if not all of the fat rendered out or was left between the meat and casing. I used 3.5 venison and 1.5 Fat that I bought from a local locker. I made sure the pork fat was around 31° before grinding and smoked going in 10° increments to a final temp of 170° and stopped at 158°.
Could it be that I didn’t mix enough? I hand mixed for 5 to 6 minutes. I’m trying to get close to my local lockers venison Summer Sausage which has a great flavor with a good garlic flavor and mustard seed in it. Any advice on my process or a seasoning that might work would be much appreciated. -
Steven Winscot Team Blue Cast Iron Canning Regular Contributors Veteran Yearling Montana Gardening Bowl Choppers Sous Vide Power Userreplied to Marty1979 on last edited by Steven Winscot
Marty1979 What size grinder plate are you using? Try grinding twice thru the 1/8 plate and add sure gel binder and emulsify thoroughly, this will help. 30% is alot of fat and pork fat cooks out easier than beef suet. Beef suet would be another option. There will always be more fat out with higher percentages of fat, it’s unavoidable.
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Dave in AZ Military Veterans Sous Vide Canning Traeger Power User Arizona Dry Cured Sausage Dry-Cured Expertreplied to Marty1979 on last edited by
Marty1979
That’s a big fat jump… original recipe was just 8% fat. Try going to 20% first.
Also, 5 or 6 min mix by hand is probably not enough. I do at least thatbif not more by machine.
Lastly, use a binder like sure gel. Your cook sched seems ok, if max smoker temp was actually 170 via accurate assessment.
You can also try finishing via sous vide after you get enough smoke flavor. Maybe set 163 or so water, and cook to 160f internal. There are a ton of threads on this if desired, just search for sous vide. -
Steven Winscot Team Blue Cast Iron Canning Regular Contributors Veteran Yearling Montana Gardening Bowl Choppers Sous Vide Power Userreplied to Dave in AZ on last edited by
Dave in AZ I only use 10% in my smoked links, logs and hamburger, 15% in fresh pork sausages. When I hear 25 to 30% being used my heart skips a beat. The whole point of making it yourself is to make a healthier option than the mass produced fatty products in a Grocery store. I hope he takes heed in our advice, less fat is better.
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processhead Power User Regular Contributors Smoker Build Expert Bowl Choppers Nebraska Veteran Team Camoreplied to Marty1979 on last edited by processhead
Marty1979
If you are seeing fat rendering out you may want to double check your processing temperatures and accuracy of your thermometers and temp probes. The sausage may have gotten hotter than you think.
Also it was mentioned that mixing and protein extraction was not sufficient to bind the ingredients enough. That is a possibility, but I suspect the temperatures.Your fat content might be a bit high for summer sausage but probably within a range to still give you a good product. I don’t think that is the cause of your fat rendering.
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Everyone thank you for your help! I wanted to try some different ways to get to a consistent process for making venison Summer Sausage and other sausages but don’t want to ruin good venison. I’m just curious how the local locker adds that much fat, yet their product doesn’t seem fatty at all. I think I will go down on my fat % like everyone suggested. I just thought I might be missing out on some flavor by having a lower fat content. Thanks again.
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PaPaSmokes Missouri Sous Vide Dry Cured Sausage PK100 Team Blue Cast Iron Regular Contributors Weber Grills Pitmaker Yoder Smokers
I was under the impression that the step smoking method is best but now I’m told by a very old sausage guy with a reputable past that it’s not necessary, he say set the smoker no higher than 160 and take the sausage to 145 then the ice bath etc…
2nd upset is that he says the sous vide from 135 to 160 it’s not worth doing and much more of a pain. What say my sausage making guru’s???Pitmaker Vault, ProSmoker PK100, Yoder YS1500s are my smokers of choice. check out my FB page sometime. @papasmokesBBQ
"from our kitchen to yours, better getcha some!" -
processhead Power User Regular Contributors Smoker Build Expert Bowl Choppers Nebraska Veteran Team Camoreplied to PaPaSmokes on last edited by processhead
PaPaSmokes said in Sausage making question.:
I was under the impression that the step smoking method is best but now I’m told by a very old sausage guy with a reputable past that it’s not necessary, he say set the smoker no higher than 160 and take the sausage to 145 then the ice bath etc…
2nd upset is that he says the sous vide from 135 to 160 it’s not worth doing and much more of a pain. What say my sausage making guru’s???Regarding the second point, the main advantage of finishing in hot water is getting the sausage IT past the stall if your smoker doesn’t have the heating capacity to get it done or if ambient temps or wind make smoking difficult. Hot water cooks more quickly and efficiently than hot air/smoke and will get the product to lethality temps quickly with minimal risk of overshooting temps or fat out.
The main disadvantage of finishing in hot water is more equipment to set up and clean and greater initial investment cost in equipment, but for many hobbyists, it is totally worth it when their smoker is not up to the task or project time is limited, or weather conditions impact smoker efficiency.
