• Team Orange Walton's Employee Admin

    Meat Hacks: How To Make Juicer Meat Products

    Learn how to make juicer meat products, what is carrot fiber, and how phosphates are used in meats with Walton's and Meatgistics. Watch the video, read the guide, and then post your questions or comments below.

    Meat Hacks

    How to make juicer meat products?
    We’ve all taken a bite out of a meat snack, a piece of chicken, or other meat, and the meat has been dry and unappetizing. If you want to try and avoid a dry meat product, we can do a couple things to tweak our process and include additives to help increase the water holding capacity and help us make a juicier final product. Two options we will look at today is Phosphates and Carrot Fiber. Sometimes seasoning blends meant to be used as a marinade will already include phosphates. Some additives already include phosphates like the Sure Gel Meat Binder, but it is not always included in other seasoning blends. Always check the ingredient statement on your seasoning to see if it already has phosphates included, or if you can include extra phosphate, as the maximum allowed amount of phosphate in meat products is 2 oz per 25 lb of meat. One of our favorite phosphate included seasoning blends for injecting or marinating meat is our Excalibur Butter Flavored Seasoning & Marinade. It works great on all types of proteins from beef, pork, chicken, or anything else. Using a seasoning like this with phosphates added will really help make one of the best smoked pork loins, brisket, or marinated and grilled chicken breasts that you could imagine. If you are using another seasoning or marinade that doesn’t include phosphates, you can include an additive like our Cold Phosphate, at a rate of 2 oz per 25 lb of meat, to help increase the water holding capacity in any types of meat products. Cold phosphate can be added to most seasoning blends that do not already contain phosphates, and is available in 8 oz or 5 lb packages, and it is also in 50 lb bulk cases if you are a commercial meat processor.

    What are options for meat binders to increase water holding capacity?
    Options for binders that can increase water holding capacity in a variety of sausages would be using our Sure Gel Meat Binder at a rate of 6 oz per 25 lb of meat, or use Carrot Fiber at a rate of 4 oz per 25 lb of meat, or use Soy Protein blend as a rate of 12 oz per 25 lb of meat. All of these are quite acceptable for most varieties of sausages, and smoked and cured meat products.

    How do phosphates work?
    By adding phosphates, what happens in the meat is that we increase the pH level of the meat product and move it further away from the isoelectric pH point of meat, which starts at around 5.2. As the pH moves away from that isoelectric point, the water holding capacity increases because there are more negatives protein charges for the water to bind to. Phosphates also increase the water holding capacity by increasing the space between proteins which allows for more water to enter the meat and be held in the myofibrils, by capillary forces. One last thing that phosphates can help with is in extending shelf life because they have antioxidant properties which can decrease the rate of lipid or fat oxidation in meats.

    Wrap Up
    A few final things to keep in mind is that adding phosphates, carrot fiber, or other binders and additives can increase water holding capacity, but they will not completely correct a bad cooking cycle and overcooking meats. If you marinate chicken and include phosphates, but you cook the chicken to an internal temp of 225 degrees instead of 165, you can still end up cooking out too much water and end up with a dry final product. Instead, couple the inclusion of phosphates, carrot fiber, and binders with cooking meat to the proper temperature, checking it with a meat thermometer, to achieve the best and most consistent results with the moistest, juiciest, and most flavorful product possible. And if you are making and cooking meat products at home, these additives can help you have a juicier final product, but if you are a commercial meat processor it can also increase your profit margins by adding to the overall weight of your meat products.

    To sum things up, if you want to make the moistest and juiciest meat product possible or increase your yields to increase your profit margin on meat products you are selling, make sure your seasoning blend includes an additive that can increase water holding capacity like phosphates, or when injecting seasoning and marinade use and add Cold Phosphate or Sure Gel to your injection solution, and if you are making any type of sausage you can add Carrot Fiber or Sure Gel Binder to increase your water holding capacity as well.

    Carrot Fiber

    Learn more about carrot fiber by visiting the Walton’s Blog, watch the video above, or visit waltonsinc.com

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  • I used the carrot fiber at rate suggested and my homemade 60/40 pork/venison sausage came out dry…was really disappointing…any idea what happened?

  • Team Blue Admin Walton's Employee Power User

    Boxie Give us as much information as you can on your process and we will see if we can figure it out. So, it was 60% pork and 40% venison? What cuts of pork did you use? How much water, what seasoning, what was your mixing and grinding like, did you get enough protein extraction, what was your smoke schedule?. Pretty much as much detail as you can give will help because at 60/40 with carrot fiber there is no reason it should be dry.

    Oh, and what tye of sausage were you making?

  • Jonathon

    So cold phosphates make for juicier products but what if you want a tangy (lemon or vinegar) tasting product? you would have to add a acid which would then lower the PH and counter act the cold phosphate would it not?
    Or is there a balance when used together?
    Looking to make a brine for a roast with tang.

  • Team Blue Admin Walton's Employee Power User

    pkzipper Nope, using phosphates with an acid won’t work. We’ve tried it in the past and you don’t get any tang and you might get a little more juicy of a product but it’s not what you are wanting. If you are looking for a roast with a tang I would do a brine with phosphates and then try to get your tang with a glaze after the cook. That’s probably your best bet unless someone else has a better?

  • Jonathon
    Figured as much. Old time recipes with no understanding of cause and effect are hard to correct especially when we want one thing and to get it hurts another.
    Traditionally in Eastern Europe lemon and vinegar was used to brine a lot of meats for the tangy flavour. However for the most part, that dried them out or left them tuff.
    So trying to get that internal tang with a tangy sauce is my goal. Just a sauce on the roast is easy but makes for a confusing taste if you bite into the meat without any sauce. Making the meat with tang by using lemon or vinegar gives it that tang but really hard to make juicy or tender without cooking the day lights out of it.

    The brine that was used is a carrot, celery root, onion, parsnip and lemon or vinegar brine.
    Any ideas??

    Thinking about celery salt, onion salt, celery juice powder (expensive) etc…

  • Team Orange

    When doing deer sausage that we put sure cure in is it necessary to put a binder in, this is also smoked not cooked?

  • Team Orange

    And I use 50/50 pork / venison

  • Team Orange Masterbuilt Big Green Egg Dry Cured Sausage Sous Vide Canning Power User

    cardzfan20 the binder sure gel would normally be used in cured products, but not a necessity. It helps with protein extraction and helps with some moisture retention. It’s your call, sausage was made before sure gel. I use it and it helps. I think JoeB uses egg whites, but I think that is for fresh sausage.

  • Team Orange Power User Canning Masterbuilt Regular Contributors Veteran New Mexico

    cardzfan20 It is not a requirement, we don’t add it to our venison sausage.

  • Regular Contributors Power User

    Austin Jonathon
    A lot of retail fresh pork already is packed with phosphate solution added by the packer.
    Any comments on using fresh pork with added phos in a sausage meat block or in other processed cured product? Any precautions or variations in additive usage when using this type of pork?

  • Team Blue Admin Walton's Employee Power User

    processhead When you add Phosphates you are hoping to make it a little juicer or more plump. This is achieved by raising the pH of the meat, making more negative Ions available. That can make it a little more difficult to use for semi-dried products like snack sticks, depending on what exactly you are wanting. The large issue is that it will decrease the shelf life of the product as the pH is higher. This is how things like Encapsulated Citric Acid raise the shell life, they lower the pH and make it a hostile environment for things that can cause spoilage,

  • This post is deleted!

  • I purchased Cold Phosphate and want to add it to my homemade pressed ham recipe. The recipe has basically pork, water, salt and cure 1. With the Cure 1, is it safe and ok to just add the Cold Phosphate at the 2 oz per 25lb (or 1/2 tsp per 1lb meat)? Thanks!

  • Regular Contributors Power User

    kroy5555 said in How To Make Juicer Meat Products:

    I purchased Cold Phosphate and want to add it to my homemade pressed ham recipe. The recipe has basically pork, water, salt and cure 1. With the Cure 1, is it safe and ok to just add the Cold Phosphate at the 2 oz per 25lb (or 1/2 tsp per 1lb meat)? Thanks!

    The cold phosphate needs to be used as part of 10% pumped cure.
    So assuming your cure is part of a pumped brine cure, then using the cold phosphate as part of the cure should be no problem.

  • processhead Thanks Paul.

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Meatgistics is brought to you by Walton's (waltons.com). Meatgistics is a community site, knowledgebase, forum, blog, learning center, and a sharing site. You can find help and ask questions about anything related to meat processing, smoking and grilling meats, plus a whole lot more. Join Austin & Jon from Walton's and sign up for our Meatgistics community today. We have created Meagistics University, where we broke down meat processing into different categories and then broke it down into a class like structure. The introductory classes are 10s, the intermediate are 20s, and advanced are 30s.

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Walton's Inc. sells meat processing equipment and supplies, including all of the Seasoning, Equipment, Supplies, Packaging, and Casings needed to make almost any type of sausage. Walton's sells to the commercial customer with a focus on the small to medium-sized processing plants or butcher shops, and directly to the hunter or processor who makes their own product at home. Whether you are a commercial or retail customer of Walton's you will be receiving the exact same seasoning and supplies, we do not have a different "line" for commercial and retail customers so that everyone can make the best sausage or jerky possible!

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