Summer Sausage

[Departing Contestant]

it will be a big hard blob (like Jonathon ) if it sets overnight

[PapaSop]

Departing Contestant said in Summer Sausage:

it will be a big hard blob (like Jonathon ) if it sets overnight

Talk about LOL… Awesome

[Deland]

I season and grind through a large plate, then let set a couple of days for the seasoning to meld. Grind through a fine plate and stuff.

[Jonathon]

Deland Are you using a starter culture?

[Deland]

No just regular spices + cure and refrigerate until smoking

[Jonathon]

I’m going to do a side by side on this. Same seasonings, same product, same smoke schedule same everything. One will be done like we normally do it and one will be done how you do it. We will make a video on it. Drop any other info on what you normally do and I will include it. PatrickB lets get this on the schedule!

[Deland]

My parents owned a little butcher shop in ND and that’s how we did it. The basics of salt, pepper, garlic, we made a mix of beef + pork, and straight beef and straight pork. Still the best summer sausage I ever had, it has to be refrigerated. We never used any cultures or tangy stuff, no one in the area liked it.

[mrobisr]

Even with starter cultures (fermenting) most SS that I know of still needs refrigeration since it is not dried enough to be shelf stable, semi-dried. The fermentation method verses ECA just adds a little more depth of flavor and a certain desirable funk for most, but it is all subjective to taste.

[Deland]

mrobisr Thanks, I don’t know anything about cultures so thanks for the info. There was and still is a Cloverdale summer sausage called cervalot(sp) that has a tangy flavor to it that I don’t like, maybe its a cultured product.

[Jesser]

Deland can anyone answer this question? Was watching Walton’s video on making summer sausage and it listed a option to finish in a Sous vide. To do this pull from smoker at 130 degrees and vacuum bag and put in Sous vide set at 172 or 179. (Why is the Sous vide setting so high is the question?)
Why not 155 or 160? Most stop processing at 152 to 160.
Thanks

[processhead]

Jesser said in Summer Sausage:

Deland can anyone answer this question? Was watching Walton’s video on making summer sausage and it listed a option to finish in a Sous vide. To do this pull from smoker at 130 degrees and vacuum bag and put in Sous vide set at 172 or 179. (Why is the Sous vide setting so high is the question?)
Why not 155 or 160? Most stop processing at 152 to 160.
Thanks

The temperature instruction seem incomplete.
If you start with the cook water at that 172-179 when you put in the sausage, that’s fine. The cool sausage will quickly lower the temperature of the water as it absorbs the heat.

I would not leave the SV set at that temperature.
After putting the sausage in, I would immediately lower the set temperature to between 152 and 160 so that it would maintain that temperature as the temp continues to drop. 160 degrees is an often stated finishing IT temperature. IMO it is likely on the conservative side and chosen to compensate for inaccurate thermometers or temperature variations in smokers and cookers.

I would also monitor the internal temperature of one of the sausages so that it can be removed from the cook water as soon as it reaches lethality temperature.

[Dave in AZ]

Jesser there are a ton of references all over the web to cook meat to 160. I believe reason is this:
USFDA, when it gives a 1 sentence recommendation for consumers who will NEVER read a cooking document, just says “cook to 160f”.
That is NOT their final answer, it’s their quick, off-the-cuff, folks can’t screw this up, answer. At 160f, everything is instantly sterilized. All utensils that have raw meat juice on them. Trichonosis is also killed, so they don’t have to discuss hard freezing suspect pork to -20f for 6 months, nor discuss or worry about possibly infected game meat.

Their actual answer is contained in their 92 page booklet, “FSIS Cooking Guideline for
Meat and Poultry Products
(Revised Appendix A)
December, 2021
Document ID: FSIS-GD-2021-14”. Which has time and temperature tables, cooking process with required humidity, times, etc. But what’s the chance Joe Public reads that, and if he does, doesn’t screw up the flowchart? Zero chance.

So they just post 160f everywhere, and it gets copied and parroted around.
Also, Marianski recommends poaching sausages in 170 ish water. As a cooking method to eat. That also shows up everywhere.

And really, for most meat fat ratios like 25%, and a good extraction, and some binders like are probably in most Waltons mixes, there is no harm in 170s probably. It works and doesn’t take too long to type, you don’t have to add all the caveats like I had to type above.

So why cook at lower temp? When you are SIMULATING a fermented Summer Sausage semi-dried, using no ferment, and doing no salami drying or aging…
…and you are achieving pathogen stability by a heat treatment, instead of pH drop via ferment and Aw reduction via drying at 50f anf 80%RH…
THEN, you may want to cook or heat treat your SS as low temp as able, to achieve a better un-cooked SS simulation product. So that’s why a lot of us like to Sous Vide at 140 to 150s pathogen lethality time/temperature combos from that Appendix A.

It all depends on how you want your end product. More like baloney, or more like salami?

[Jesser]

Dave in AZ so for your summer sausage you pull from smoker at_______ degrees and put in your Sous vide set at _______ degrees for _______hours?

[Dave in AZ]

Jesser
Hehe you want that firm answer, but soooo much depends.
I smoke for color and a bit of flavor only. So like 2 to 4 hours smoke at 150f in smoker. Then toss in SV at 155f until internal temp is > 145 for 5 min. But really, I toss them in, unbagged, and check them after an hour.

But here are the depends factors…

1. If I’m smoking bacon for 9 hours anyways, I have just done sausage chubbs on smoker whole time. I probably have 75% space open, so hate to waste that long smoke. Sometimes I do snacksticks instead.
2. If I’m doing venison, 50% and 50% beef usually, then I go to 160f IT with 165f set on SV, because wild game and I don’t really know the provenance since someone else butchers for me.
3. If I’m doing a Taylor Pork roll, it is about the same as a new style SS. I have pretty large defined fat in there, 3mm grind mixed in at end. I want it to survive, and zero fat out… I’m going to fry it up like bacon anyhow. So I may not smoke at all, may use hickory smoke powder if flavor desired, and just SV at 140f water, and ensure I hit a time-temp combo from chart before pulling.

I tend to change up recipes and try new things, enough that I don’t feel the need to “replicate” the last good batch. And I don’t make 25 lb batches that have to be good, I do 5 to 10 lbs usually.
Hope that is helpful somehow

[Jesser]

Dave in AZ I’m with ya totally not really looking for a firm answer just curious what experience people are doing so I’m not out in left field. You know get your feet wet before you jump in the deep end. Lol
I usually massage seasoning to my tastes and processing because in almost all cases no one is using all the same equipment. So it is really hard to follow exactly what someone else is doing. Besides trying different things is what makes making sausage, sick’s etc so interesting and fun. Thanks for the reply’s enjoy the chats.
WOW I looked outside and we are actually having a snow storm.
Ok thanks again my friend take care.

[Dave in AZ]

Jesser said in Summer Sausage:

WOW I looked outside and we are actually having a snow storm.

Well, just for you then… Waikiki This is why I am laying around with so much time to type! Gotta have something to do while kids are surfing!

[Denny O]

Jesser said in Summer Sausage:

WOW I looked outside and we are actually having a snow storm.
Ok thanks again my friend take care.

Just wait till the 50 mph gusts and the 25 mph sustained winds slap ya! Had a little snow here but it didn’t stick to the pavement. Looks like Dave in AZ Dave’s streets don’t have any snow on them either.

[Jesser]

Dave in AZ hi Dave I have a couple of questions if you would be kind enough to answer
#1 I cut up a pork butt and put back in freezer. ground the meat later and got ready to mix in spices and noticed the ground meat was really wet. Have NOT added anything yet. No water nothing. NEVER experienced this before, texture was if I had added to much water. Could this be from refreezing, old meat or something else?

#2 when processing smoke sausage in hog casings like Walton’s hot links smoke first and you bag before Sous vide or just toss links in SV after smoking? Trying to resolve issue of tough casings.
Thanks

[processhead]

Jesser Grinding and refreezing/ thawing is likely the cause of your moisture.
When you freeze and thaw, there is a lot of juice released. When it is ground meat, it just releases more moisture than whole meat. I try to avoid grinding and refreezing sausage meat for this reason.

[Steven Winscot]

ppelaez Stuff and then refrigerate otherwise it will set up and it will be harder to crank the stuffer.