Hot stick
-
Smoked some hot stick and had some greasy gel like on the inside of the casing. Slow smoked from 120 to 156 internal temp.bolded text
-
Tex_77 Team Blue Power User Traeger Primo Grills PK Grills Canning Sous Vide Community Moderator Kansas
Sounds like it fatted out to me, could you post a more precise smoke schedule and someone with more know how than I, might have a better answer. processhead Jonathon
-
1hour-120
1hour-140
1hour-160
1hour-180 -
processhead Power User Regular Contributors Smoker Build Expert Bowl Choppers Nebraska Veteran Team Camo
Fat out is a possibility. What were you using for your meat block and how much added water?
-
I used 15lbs pork butt with a lot of fat taken out and 10lbs deer.I never used binder,is this what I need?
-
2 Cupps water
-
Jamieson22 Team Blue PK100 Regular Contributors Power User Illinoisreplied to Ironworker71 on last edited by Jamieson22
Ironworker71 said in Hot stick:
I used 15lbs pork butt with a lot of fat taken out and 10lbs deer.I never used binder,is this what I need?
None of that sounds problematic (though doubt you needed to remove any fat). How well did you mix? Did you get good protein extraction?
How accurate is your smoker and how big a batch?
Edit: Duh, 25lb batch you said. TBH 4 hours seems a short run to get to 156F for a 25lb batch. -
I really think it was mixed good. I also used encapsulated acid.what do u mean about protein extraction?
-
I also had 2 probes in the meat and a probe just hanging for tempature.Should have gone hotter, just can’t figure it out.Some of casting just seems to peel off.
-
processhead Power User Regular Contributors Smoker Build Expert Bowl Choppers Nebraska Veteran Team Camoreplied to Ironworker71 on last edited by
Ironworker71 said in Hot stick:
I really think it was mixed good. I also used encapsulated acid.what do u mean about protein extraction?
Protein extraction is what happens to the meat when it is mixed well with salt which you provide along with the seasoning. It is what causes the loose ground meat to get sticky and bind together after it is stuffed in the casing and cooked.
It sounds to me like you were doing all the right things. If a casing is stuffed too loosely with air pockets, sometimes those will fill with gelatin that comes out of the meat during thermal processing. You may see this occasionally, but it is kind of unusual to see it throughout your whole run of stuffed sticks. You see it on more of an isolated basis, so not sure about your situation.
-
Ironworker71 Protein extraction is when the meat binds together. Your fat is going to start melting almost no matter how you cook it. Having proper protein extraction is what prevents what happened to you, the fat melts, but has no way to get to the outside of the sausage because it is surrounded by proteins that are stuck together. It is how you can get nice fat chunks in summer sausage and snack sticks. If I had to bet I would guess that is the cause, because your smoke schedule seems fine to me. Like Jamieson22 says, it could be the fluctuation but even if it did rather large ups and downs the temps should still have been okay.
Sure Gel Meat Binder is a great way to make sure this doesn’t happen in the future, not expensive and adds a large margin of error to the mixing process. Also, doesn’t make it harder to stuff like Soy Protein Blend does.
Do you happen to know what the temp of the meat was when you were mixing it? If meat gets too warm it will not allow the proteins to be extracted no matter how much you mix it. Years ago Austin and I did a video, you don’t have to watch the entire thing but here is the relevant part of how sticky the meat should be https://youtu.be/wStH-RtQUY8?t=82
If you are sure that your meat was mixed well then give us as much detail on the entire process, what was your meat block, fat content, how did you grind it, how long did you mix it and how much water did you add? During the smoking process did you add any humidity?
-
2 Cupps water,seasoning,2cupps sugar,honey,cure,encapsulated acid.The pork was in the fridge and deer was left to thaw in the sink overnight.Ground it twice in a 3/8 hole plate.I did this in a garage fairly warm because it was getting hot
-
bocephus Team Orange Power User Canning Masterbuilt Regular Contributors Veteran New Mexico Sous Vide Gardeningreplied to Ironworker71 on last edited by
Ironworker71 Did you do an ice bath after smoking, that really helps with the casings not peeling off.
-
Dave in AZ Military Veterans Sous Vide Canning Traeger Power User Arizona Dry Cured Sausage Dry-Cured Expertreplied to Ironworker71 on last edited by Dave in AZ
Ironworker71 said in Hot stick:
I really think it was mixed good. I also used encapsulated acid.what do u mean about protein extraction?
Not sure when you added the encapsulated acid, but it is supposed to go in at the very end with almost no mixing except a gentle dispersal. If you mixed the ECA too much, the acid gets exposed, and it breaks down the meat binding you just worked to make. This leads to crumbly texture, and Fat Out due to not binding the fat with the protein anymore.
You also mentioned the deer was left to thaw in sink overnight, but didn’t say what it’s temperature was…sounds like it may have been room temperature, not 32 to 34 f, which would also cause issues. Another video to watch in addition to the one Jonathon linked, is 2guysandacooler at youtube did one where he started with cold meat, but one batch he didn’t rechill between grinds or stuffing it… just that alone led to 4x as much fat rendering during cooking vs. the one he kept well chilled.
-
Ironworker71 Few things, most of them have been touched on above but unless you have a smoker that can spray, run the fan, then spray, then run the fan then yes, Ice bath absolutely superior to spraying. However, I don’t think that was your issue, that’s gonna help stop the cooking process but if you have fat out, it already happened before that phase.
Dave in AZ asked about the Encapsulated Citric Acid above and if you added that with the rest of the ingredients then there is your problem. If you rupture that encapsulation then it is going to denature your proteins and kill the bonds which would cause your issue. (also Dave that’s an interesting video from them, I want to try that cause it seems like 4x is extreme, but maybe! When Cabelas90 who is a commercial processor and I were talking we agreed that 90+% of issues is either meat gets too warm or lack of protein extraction)
I think the most likely thing from what you say though is, twice through a 3/8 isn’t going to get the meat fine enough to get proper protein extraction. You need to go through 3/8 and then through 1/8 plate. That is going to break the meat down enough and it will bind much better.
Get more help with your processing questions and learn more about processing meat by subscribing to our waltons.com youtube page at https://www.youtube.com/@waltonsinc
-
Thank you for the help. I put the encapsulated in last and didn’t mix much by hand.I think , like ur saying The meat got warm and I never used that 1/8 plate ever. I always just double ground but will use for sure now on!Thanks again
-
What was your salt level? You need at least around 1.75% meat weight = salt to extract protein & create bind. Encapsulated acid is relatively fragile and the capsule can dissolve if the blend sits too long before stuffing. You can also strip the capsule off if you grind or chop the mix after the encapsulated acid is added and the acid will destroy bind when you add more mechanical action during stuffing.
-
cdavis Masterbuilt Canning Kamado Joes Regular Contributors Power User Sous Vide Oklahoma Team Camoreplied to bocephus on last edited by
bocephus just saw that I accidentally downvoted your post. It’s fixed now. Sorry
-
bocephus Team Orange Power User Canning Masterbuilt Regular Contributors Veteran New Mexico Sous Vide Gardeningreplied to cdavis on last edited by bocephus
cdavis Not a problem, I have hit the down vote button by accident on occasion.
