Cold smoking sausage help
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Dave in AZ Military Veterans Sous Vide Canning Traeger Power User Arizona Dry Cured Sausage Dry-Cured Expertreplied to jeffkakuk on last edited by Dave in AZ
jeffkakuk Cold smoking, from Marianski, Home Production:
Smoking Methods Cold Smoking Continuous smoking at 52-71° F (12-22° C), from 1-14 days, applying thin smoke with occasional breaks in between, is one of the oldest preservation methods. We cannot produce cold smoke if the outside temperature is 90° F (32° C), unless we can cool it down, which is what some industrial smokers do. Cold smoking is a drying process whose purpose is to remove moisture thus preserving a product. You will find that different sources provide different temperatures for cold smoking. In European countries where most of the cold smoking is done, the upper temperature is accepted as 86° F (30° C). The majority of Russian, Polish and German meat technology books call for 71° F (22° C), some books ask for 77° F (25° C). Fish starts to cook at 85° F (29.4° C) and if you want to make delicious cold smoked salmon that is smoked for a long time, obviously you can not exceed 86° F (30° C).I see TONS of videos where some Youtuber will say, “I’m cold smoking these at 120 to 130…”, which is just total misinformation. Hot smoking at lower temps.
So, you need to give a bit of info about what you are trying to cold amoke, and why. That is, what is the goal, flavor or dehydration etc?
I have a longish thread here on cold smoking some salmon. Did it at night when low temp, filled smoker with ice, used an external cold smoke generator etc. IMO it was a big waste, turns out the massively intense smoke flavor wasn’t what I actually wanted, once I tasted it. Now I just cure/dry brine, and smoke it 30 min or so, because that is the flavor I was imagining.
Tips for cold smoking, or any lower temp smoking like for sausages:
- Come Up Time, that is time the meat is in the Danger Zone 50 to 130f, must be less than 6 hours total.
- Long times in smoker can give oxygen free perfect environment for botulism to grow. Long slow smokes need to be protected against botulism with sodium nitrite, cure1. This is for ground or penetrated meat where spires could have gotten inside.
Cold smoking Lox thread:
https://meatgistics.waltons.com/topic/5239/lox-or-cold-smoked-salmon?_=1665701390080Hope that helps!
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Dave in AZ Military Veterans Sous Vide Canning Traeger Power User Arizona Dry Cured Sausage Dry-Cured Expertreplied to jeffkakuk on last edited by
jeffkakuk said in Cold smoking sausage help:
…and for cure I was thinking of trying fermentation. Thanks Jeff
Oh, also, fermentation is NOT a cure. You still need to add cure1! Fermentation is just a way to lower the pH of the meat to below levels that most of the 10 major food pathogen bacteria thrive. It really only applies as a method to help keep your meat from spoiling and growing bad bacteria, while you’re low smoking it. And it doesn’t stop clostridium botulusm much, so you use cure1 against that absolutely lethal threat.
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cdavis Masterbuilt Canning Kamado Joes Regular Contributors Power User Sous Vide Oklahoma Team Camoreplied to Dave in AZ on last edited by
Dave in AZ wow. Great information
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Dave in AZ Military Veterans Sous Vide Canning Traeger Power User Arizona Dry Cured Sausage Dry-Cured Expertreplied to cdavis on last edited by Dave in AZ
cdavis thx Charley… I’m trying to do anything to put off finishing my tax extension lol. Whatever I can find online to eat up my time, I can’t procrastinate hard enough.
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Dave in AZ
Thanks so much for the reply. After reading what you said I guess I’m looking to low temp smoke venison sausage. I have a local old guy that won’t give any info but his stuff is the best. It has a tang flavor and almost looks raw. All I know is that he smokes it for over 10 hours at low temperature. I guess what I’m trying to do is dial in something similar to his sausage. Thanks -
Dave in AZ Military Veterans Sous Vide Canning Traeger Power User Arizona Dry Cured Sausage Dry-Cured Expertreplied to jeffkakuk on last edited by Dave in AZ
jeffkakuk Good info and a worthwhile target!
Totally doable. Here is what I’d be looking at:- Tang, could be from a ferment, or from Encapsulated Citric Acid. Either would be ok, slightly different flavor.
- Add cure#1 at rate of 2.5g per kilogram meat, or 1/2t per 5 lbs. This is needed.
- Stick sausages on grill or smoker, smoke them at 120 to 150, gradually increasing until IT of meat is > 130. You may want higher for wild game. This kills pathogens. You can eat it. Salami isn’t cooked.
- Deer cooks like beef for temps, 130 rare, 150 pretty done. However, deer has risks for trichinosis etc, so most want to cook it higher to lethal temps for thise worms… I THINK it is 160? I’d have to look it up. If you’re targeting a more raw texture, then lower temp, your call. I eat deer med rare all the time, but it is always hard frozen for months, which is another trichinosis lethality treatment.
- Smoke it at low temps as long as you like, assessing dryness as you go.
Alternatively, you could actually make a fermented salami then actually slow cold smoke it for flavor. Lot of drying hurdles there and also deer pathogen risks, so I don’t know about wild game salami. However, Marianski covers it in his book Art of making Fermented Sausages.
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mrobisr Team Blue Cast Iron Sous Vide Canning Dry Cured Sausage Masterbuilt Military Veterans Power User Regular Contributorsreplied to jeffkakuk on last edited by
jeffkakuk Sounds like you want a fermentation tang, be sure and research all the different cultures because every one of them can add a slightly different flavor. Then you can also alter and change the flavor by holding in a drying chamber from days to years. While the jury is out on the single definition of “cold smoke” my suggestion is anything <90f. I read that years ago in and old country ham recipe book that I cannot seem to find anymore, but I have used that temp for years with all types of meat products to include country ham that sat at room temperature for 6 months and was safe and delicious. I use cold smoke as a preservative enhancer and then either dry hanging at room temperature or in my drying chamber, but this coming from a southern that doesn’t always have the lower temperatures. The main reason for the lower temperatures is to keep the good bacteria alive so the cure #2 can continue to cure the meat for the weeks and months to come. A good rule of thumb that will keep your cured products safe to eat is to use cure #1 for any cooked or <30 days cure meats and use cure #2 or tenderquick for non-cooked 30 days or more cures.
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mrobisr Team Blue Cast Iron Sous Vide Canning Dry Cured Sausage Masterbuilt Military Veterans Power User Regular Contributorsreplied to jeffkakuk on last edited by
jeffkakuk Also, there are ways to ferment and dry without the expensive chambers and systems, you just must be creative and stay within the meat safe parameters already established. There are several of us on the board that cure, age, ferment, and dry meat products safely all the time, so do not hesitate to ask for help.
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mrobisr
Yes I would like to try to age, ferment possibly. Is it possible to use a electric smoker or won’t it go low enough? Guess I never checked mine. But as I’m getting older I really want to get more involved with this types of stuff. I just hate failure and having to throw away a lot of meat. Thanks again. -
Dave in AZ Military Veterans Sous Vide Canning Traeger Power User Arizona Dry Cured Sausage Dry-Cured Expertreplied to jeffkakuk on last edited by
jeffkakuk
Jeff, if you don’t have it yet, get Marianski’s book, Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausages. It has everything you need to ferment and age salami and whole muscle meats. He has one the Art of Making Fermented Sausages also, but the 1st one covers everything and more than the 2nd. 2nd one is just more detailed on some things.You can read most of the text of 1st book by going to his website, meatsandsausages dot com.
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I more than 2nd Dave in AZ recommendation, this is a GREAT resource
Get more help with your processing questions and learn more about processing meat by subscribing to our waltons.com youtube page at https://www.youtube.com/@waltonsinc
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bocephus Team Orange Power User Canning Masterbuilt Regular Contributors Veteran New Mexico Sous Vide Gardeningreplied to Jonathon on last edited by
Jonathon This is a good reference book along with Great Sausage Recipes by Rytek Kutas. I haven’t seen the 1001 sausage recipes by Marianski yet but I am sure that will be another good one also.
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mrobisr Team Blue Cast Iron Sous Vide Canning Dry Cured Sausage Masterbuilt Military Veterans Power User Regular Contributorsreplied to jeffkakuk on last edited by
jeffkakuk said in Cold smoking sausage help:
Is it possible to use a electric smoker or won’t it go low enough?
Either don’t turn the heat on or use a 60w-100watt light bulb with a temp controller. Along with the books that others have recommended I will recommend these and if you will be wanting to ferment I cannot recommend “The Art of Making Fermented Sausages” enough.
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Dave in AZ Military Veterans Sous Vide Canning Traeger Power User Arizona Dry Cured Sausage Dry-Cured Expertreplied to mrobisr on last edited by
mrobisr nice! Here is my headboard on bed above my head right now lol…
Home Poduction, and The Art of Making Fermented by Marianskis are both on phone digital
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Dave in AZ Military Veterans Sous Vide Canning Traeger Power User Arizona Dry Cured Sausage Dry-Cured Expertreplied to jeffkakuk on last edited by
jeffkakuk have it. It is the content of Home Production along with recipes from 2 or 3 others. I havent read all thru it yet.
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mrobisr Team Blue Cast Iron Sous Vide Canning Dry Cured Sausage Masterbuilt Military Veterans Power User Regular Contributorsreplied to Dave in AZ on last edited by
Dave in AZ Good stuff all of them.
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