Ban on gas stoves

[GWG8541]

calldoctoday I heat with propane and it can freeze, but I believe the freeze point for the liquid is below negative 300 degrees. I believe I was told that in extreme weather below -44 degrees it runs a risk of causing problems at the regulator if the liquid cannot evaporate into the gas form we all use. Im hoping I never have to find out.

[calldoctoday]

GWG8541 I did not realize it was that low. I would swear I have seen situations in very cold weather, on more than one occasion, where the propane would not work because it had allegedly frozen & had to thaw, then it worked fine. I can assure you, the temps were not even close to that as you can imagine. That has me intrigued as I have understood that now for a long, long, long time. Thanks for getting me to think about it some more. Not tonight, but sometime in the near future.

[GWG8541]

calldoctoday if you find out let me know. It was explained to me by my HVAC guy when he installed the furnace. The liquid takes a lot to freeze, but it has to be warm enough to evaporate and put of the gas. Im sure there is someone on here smarter than I am that can explain it all.

[calldoctoday]

GWG8541 Well, it sounds like the not too smart guy would be me. I did not really feel like doing much research on this tonight as I am trying to wrap it up here in the office & my head is aching. However, I did a little more, but will not get into it too deep. My thoughts on it, s I understood it all these years were apparently a little on the simple side. You are right, although I saw multiple numbers, maybe some were actually centigrade, I am not sure. The bottom line though is that the propane itself is very unlikely to freeze in our typical world. However, it appears more complicated than my simple thoughts that it freezes & does not work. Even though it is not freezing, it is still affected by real cold weather as the pressure in the tank will drop with the much colder weather, especially if the tank is less full & as I understand it, then the liquid cannot vaporize back to a gas & get through the regulator & to the burner, due to lack of pressure & that was why I was seeing situations where it was not working in very cold weather & I had always been told it was freezing a long time ago & I just stuck with it. Thanks for bringing that to my attention & I will look into it more at another time. Now the big question regarding all this stuff though, is what is the impact of LP vs NG regarding all this business about NG being bad. It bothers me too, because we have always been told how much cleaner & better it is to burn NG vs Petro in vehicles & how clean NG is a fuel. We are all getting very deep into this stuff now.

[dawg]

calldoctoday
NG is mostly methane and has 1 carbon and 4 hydrogens, is lighter than air. Propane is made of 3 carbons and 8 hydrogens and is heavier than air. In appliances, you have to change out the orifices to make sure the gas to air mixture is correct. Propane is cooled and pressurized down into a liquid while natural gas is usually just pressurized and pumped thru pipes in a distribution system. Mercaptan is a sulfur product added to both so we can smell them.
As to the long term health effects and which one is cleaner to burn in your house, I’m not for sure, but methane, I believe would probably be a more complete combustion with less carbon monoxide and other byproducts as long as the gas to air ratio is right for both. In my opinion, both are safe when used properly.

[GWG8541]

calldoctoday my Dad died at 91, his dad died at 99. They lived on a farm in Tennessee and heated and cooked with coal and wood stoves. The ventilation was windows and doors. Later my dad had a NG stove in his kitchen, which he used until he died of kidney failure at 91. He had no breathing illness or lung issues of any kind. Im not saying they can’t cause issues, but there are definitely worse things out there. I currently have an electric stove, but plan on switching to propane when it goes on the fritz.

I also remembered reading this article on LP when reading up on stuff for my camper. It explains the propane temp thing pretty well.
https://beginrv.com/can-propane-freeze/

[processhead]

GWG8541 said in Ban on gas stoves:

I also remembered reading this article on LP when reading up on stuff for my camper. It explains the propane temp thing pretty well.
https://beginrv.com/can-propane-freeze/

The link has a pretty good explanation of the cold weather issues, and it mostly involves low pressure resulting from low temperatures and a propane tank that is running at a low level.
Low temperatures can affect how well pressure regulators and valves will do their jobs in a propane system.

[calldoctoday]

GWG8541 Thanks for the link & the read, I am going to read it. First, we are always sad to see someone go for you & anyone. I am with you 110% & with folks in Kentucky, Tennessee, & Missouri & many the same as you described. A few of us all may have had a breathing issue or two, including myself, but I doubt very seriously if it had anything to do with using NG, LP, or wood as a fuel source. I also have been seriously considering the same as I mentioned before & wish I had have done it sooner, but was reluctant due to the price of LP, compared to what we were able to get NG for in the past. From what I have heard, a lot of that is coming full circle though & NG is not as near free as it used to be in some places. They are about equal now, but Elex. continues to go up, up, & up. We can go out & purchase a very nice LP range that appears much more durable & easy to clean for what it is, for just about half the price of a comparable electric model. That is insane. I will just have to install the tank (I prefer underground) & piping & I have done it before very well & hopefully they will let me do it here too. We already have a good ventilation hood over the range & hey, we live in an old house anyways. Then you do not want to get me started on all the seal it up too tight, then mold, now artificial & mechanical natural ventilation. Everything keeps going complicated, complicated, complicated instead of keeping things simple, high quality.

[calldoctoday]

processhead That was a good read with some good informative information. Stu sounds like a real renaissance man.

[calldoctoday]

I would swear that I have seen humidity or something, maybe barometric pressure have an effect on propane in the past too, but I have never been able to consistently put my finger on it & narrow it down to a science so still not sure. Who knows, outside of a lab & very controlled & monitored conditions, it is hard to say sometimes.