Pink Sure Cure Alternative?

[Departing Contestant]

celery powder will “cure” the product and it will not be pink

[Jonathon]

Departing Contestant Doesn’t USDA still say it has curative properties but is not a cure, or has that changed? Are they calling it a cure now, or is that why you put quotation marks around cure.

[mrobisr]

Jonathon said in Pink Sure Cure Alternative?:

Doesn’t USDA still say it has curative properties but is not a cure,

Correct according to 9CFR42421.

[Departing Contestant]

Jonathon it is because of the misconception that people have of the curing properties of celery.they wanted an alternative to pink so I threw it out. The science behind celery powder is the same as the science behind snake oil. There is a sucker born…

[Ridley Acres]

Departing Contestant, I don’t really want to start an argument so I’ll just leave this here and move on. There are some misconceptions about what people are calling celery juice powder. What Walton’s and other places sell is more than just dehydrated and ground up celery. https://waltons.com/celery-juice-powder-5-oz/ is actually “VEG Stable - 506” a cultured product that I believe to be produced by https://floridafood.com/products/vegstable-cure/ which has standardized nitrite levels in their product.

The alternative method is great for families like mine that have sensitivities to instacure and/or red dye. I have used this product. When used per the mfg reccomendations, my ham looked pinkish like you would think a ham should, but I did make one and the very center was frozen so the brine didn’t penetrate and was a distinct color difference and did not taste hammy. The part that didn’t “cure” was more like pork chop flavor and color.

Recommended usage rates using the Veg Stable 506 AKA https://waltons.com/celery-juice-powder-5-oz/

• Bacon – 0.53% meat weight – 120ppm ingoing • Hot Dogs/Sausage – 0.69% meat weight– 156ppm ingoing • Beef Jerky/Sticks – 0.69% meat weight– 156ppm ingoing • Hams– 0.8 – 0.86% meat weight – 180 - 195ppm ingoing • Corned Beef/Pastrami - 0.8 – 0.86% meat weight – 180 - 195ppm ingoing • Dry Cured Bacon – 0.88% meat weight – 200ppm ingoing • Dry Cured Ham – 2.77% meat weight – 625ppm ingoing

[Bob Stehlik]

Ridley Acres Thanks for the information. Today will be a success as I have learned something new.

[Denny O]

Ridley Acres Reading your break down for the different meats brought a question to this old block of meat’s head.
Why do the different cuts of meat require different strengths (weight %/ppm) to achieve a cured product?

My block is thinking, a protein would require the same ppm/pound of any protein.

[Dave in AZ]

Denny O usfda allows different nitrite max levels depending on product. It’s all in the various usfda booklets, or all in one place in the usfda FSIS Inspectors Handbook.

The gist of it is how much nitrite is expected to be used up vs left in meat.
Country ham months long dry rub, no bag or liquid? Needs to last months, most all will just off gas to air, 625 allowed.
Whole muscle, treated from outside in brine? Not all will penetrate, takes a lot to get in there and spread.
Chopped sausage? Less needed, will be added and mixed thoroughly. 156ppm
Bacon? Expected to be pumped and tumbled in a day, then cooked at high temps, risk of nitrosamines forming if much nitrites left, so 120ppm max AND must use sodium erythorbate accelerator to ensure it is all used up aamd converted quickly.

People post recipes and usage all the time that violates the max allowed levels, usually by using the “open to the air, months long country ham style dry rub” for bag sealed curing, or whole muscle ham levels for ground sausage, or any of those with the 120ppm lower limit for bacon.

These are all critical numbers you should understand and be able to see how any recipe or cure you use, including mixes, correctly meet… folks trying to use premix ham cures for bacon mess this up all the time by not following exact recipe, trying to use as brine instead of rub, trying to use for bacon instead of ham, etc.

Limits and amounts are listed in Marianski’s books also, recommend their Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausages if you haven’t read it

[Dave in AZ]

Ridley Acres great post, Ridley!

[Denny O]

Dave in AZ Thanks Dave!
It is the process that an item is cured changes the amount mostly, then the product has to fit the process. Does that boil it down to a simplified answer?