How am I doing so far?

[Denny O]

I think SWMBO might squak at me abusing the Kitchen Aid mixer. I just have a #8.
When I purchased it 10 ish years ago, I never thought it would get as much use as I do give it!

[bocephus]

Dave in AZ Shouldn’t have to use the stomper on second grind, have cold meat and just feed at the pace your grinder will take.

[samspade]

Denny O I’ve still got my kitchen aid and use it to make ground beef for burgers. For sausages go big. I use a 32 but I think it’s to big but I got it for a good price.

[PaPaSmokes]

Ok guys I might have just ruined the very first batch of sausage. I used the bearded butchers mango tango seasoning and realized after reading that it did not contain cure. I put it in the smoker at 120 and have been stair stepping up to 170° the meat went from 32° and now sits at 135° I believe I put them in at 9ish am and it’s now 11:15 am. You think I’m ok?

[Dave in AZ]

PaPaSmokes
Yes.
130 begins killing pathogens. At 135, it takes 37 min.
In a recent video 2guysandaCooler tested minimum cooker temp to not use cure. He used 2 hrs to reach 160f, but I believe those were a bit arbitrary in choice.

Use of cure1 is because ground up meat has a higher bacteria load than a muscle, and waaay more surface area to grow. USFDA recommends 6 hrs maximum for meat between 50f and 130f. But ground meat, Eric used 2 hrs. USFDA may say that, but I haven’t found it.

Anyways, you are close enough to be OK I’d say.

[PaPaSmokes]

So you guys think that the fresh sausage that I have still in the smoker that was in the danger zone for around 3 hours or so is ok to continue. As I stated above I did not realize the prepackaged mix I bought did not have cure included, lesson learned for sure, I hear different things snd it’s not worth a $20 piece of meat to get the family sick. I’m still finishing it up as at least practice. It at 153 now and I have probed a few so it’s almost there then I’ll I’ve bath it and set on counter for an hour before the frig if you guys think I’m ok. Let me know your thoughts.

[dawg]

I agree with Dave in AZ

[PaPaSmokes]

dawg I just wanted to clarify what I did do everyone had the facts that it was in that danger zone longer than 2 hours. Thx for your reply.

[twilliams]

It’s not really relevant but what you have is not fresh sausage, what you are currently doing is making a smoked cooked sausage. A fresh sausage is a meat product that is raw meat that you grill, fry, bake, Sous vide or microwave in a short period of time typically at a constant temperature. Smoking a sausage you are slow cooking at a multi temperature increase until complete. I personally wouldn’t eat a smoked product without the cure added but I know others have stated before this incident that it would ok if it met certain criteria, which I am not sure of what they are so I can not give an opinion on if it’s safe or not.

[PaPaSmokes]

Ok guys, I’m in learning mode and not ashamed to post what I think is a not so good looking brat. They are mango jalapeño maple from dwarfed butcher, we used 12.5 lbs of pork butt , double grinder and kept at 31/32° during the whole process, used top notch hog casing. Frig overnite. Dries at 120° for an hour with dampers open, 130° smoke/water pans dampers at 1/3 for an hour. 140° same for 1 hour, 150° same for 1 hour, 160° same, 175° no smoke no water close dampers until sausage hit 160°, ice bath for 30 min then into frig. Figured since they were not cured I’d better not leave them on counter to bloom. Not sure how I got from such a great looking raw brat to this…

[bocephus]

PaPaSmokes During initial drying time I have vents fully open.

[PaPaSmokes]

bocephus did that, I posted all my details.

[bocephus]

PaPaSmokes You posted dampers closed during drying cycle.

[PaPaSmokes]

Sorry, I did have dampers open during drying.

[bocephus]

PaPaSmokes I wasn’t trying to be critical just noticed it was stated closed.

[PaPaSmokes]

bocephus oh man, didn’t want you to think that. I went back and edited it. I’m super critical about my bbq and them darn dogs looked amazing raw, now they look like, well anyway. I have the other half of the batch of just cheddar brats that does have cure in the recipe. I’m scared to smoke them, I was hoping sone of you seasoned guys could read my details, look at my pics and in one fatal swoop fix me. I absolutely loved doing this and can’t wait to do more, but I’ll have to wait until I get the rest of my homeless cook completed the next two weekends. I still hav about 350lbs of meat to smoke for them. Anyway I’m open to corrective criticism guys. I’m blessed to be here among you.

[bocephus]

PaPaSmokes One thing you might want to do is keep the water in for the whole process after drying period.

[Dave in AZ]

PaPaSmokes
Too Long, Didn’t Read (TLDR):
Your smoked sausage looks totally fine.

I feel like you have a false expectation of what a smoked sausage looks like, making you less happy with end product than you should be! A few things you said lead me to conclude your expectations may be off. Those SMOKED SAUSAGES look fine!

Here is what you’re saying that makes me think you’re possibly confused on expected results.

1. You keep saying BRATS. THESE ARE NOT BRATS!! Bratwurst is a FRESH UNCOOKED sausage, that is then FAST COOKED. In Germany, it is usually cooked in 170f water by poaching. You can then put brown marks on it in a pan or grill.
   –Alternative cooking is just raw then straight to a pan, or grill, cooked high like 300f and up, done in 20 minutes. However, this does not produce as good results as poaching (or sous vide) first, as the high heat on raw un-denatured proteins will cause fat to melt out, lising juiciness. Also the casings tend to pop due to steam produced before meat is denatured i.e. cooked.

2. SMOKED sausages, cooked at 130 to 180f external smoker temps usually, look just like yours. They only achieve color from smoke, they do not exhibit the browning from Maillard reaction, very much. Maillard takes place at 250f and above really. If you are looking to get a smoked sausage that looks like a BRATWURST OFF GRILL OR PAN, then you will be dissappointed.

3. Maybe you got led to this expectation by false claims and incorrect use of terminology on some popular YouTube channels… I watch Chudds and Smokin Joes Pit BBQ, and I don’t think I have ever seen a video where they use correct terminology! They constantly say they are “cold smoking” stuff when really it is 150 to 170f, not below 75f that Cold Smoking refers to. Both those guys, and tons more, are BBQ guys, cooking on grills at 225 and up, not smoking! All the nice reddish brown sausages they show are fast cooked usually in a 225f and hotter grill.

4. The recipe and seasoning you used, BB Mango Tango BRATURST seasoning… isn’t for a smoked sausage, it is for a bratwurst. Being confused about what a bratwurst is and how it is cooked, led you to think there might be Cure1 in the mix, I think. It has mango, jalapeno, and maple sugar, that’s about it!! Barely any salt, though some is listed in their maple sugar flavoring pack…but no nutritional labeling, so you can’t determine how much. I would never use a product like that, where the salt content is a complete guess. If you can’t ensure 1.5 to 1.7% salt, normal saltiness for sausage, I’d add my own.
   –Why do I care about salt? Salt is the #1 thing that locks up water, lowers Aw, and inhibits bacterial growth while you are heating up meat through the danger zone! With little or no salt, bacteria are much faster to grow. Since the crux of your concern here is “Did my sausage get to lethality temps fast enough to keep bacteria or botulism from growing?”, I am adding this note on salt so you know how it helps, for future cooks.

Ok, I need to go get another Mai Tai, hope that helps!

[processhead]

Dave in AZ Great reply, Dave.
There is a lot of misunderstanding about the basic terminology that describes sausage types and their preparation.

[Dave in AZ]

processhead thx Paul!
Thank God for PaPaSmokes and his questions this week! My kid is surfing every day, and I’m on Guard Duty, sitting on beach or pool bar table watching his stuff. So like, 4 to 6 hrs to read and kill time every day lol… So I am having a great time reading meatgistics, and making long posts. So glad PapaSmokes has questions, or I wouldn’t last the time lol!