Sticks dry fastest when moisture is leaving the surface of the product at the same rate it’s moving out from the center and you get a smooth/pebbly surface like spandex or very fine uniform wrinkles all around the product like Slim JIms used to be. Relative humidity 50%-65% will help this appearance. The deep wrinkles are uneven drying where the surface skins over in some areas (smooth parts or tops of ridges) and all the moisture is escaping from other areas that cave in (the valleys). If you use low relative humidity (0%-35%), you should get deeper wrinkles. Higher air speed will produce deeper wrinkles. And slow cooling in air from a high temperature will help the wrinkling. You could pull it hot and let it stand in air to 80-100F to enhance the wrinkle, then chill it as long as it is cured sausage and not 80-130F for more than 1.5 hrs or 40-80F for more than 5 hrs

samspade haha that’s funny, they never offered to reimburse anything. They did state it was still edible, just unappealing to the eye. I won’t supply my paying customers that type of garbage. I wish I still had the photos but I deleted them

Free food. Must be a good feeling knowing meat won’t be a issue.

I love the pretubed. They load easily, have fewer blow outs or holes, and store well. Well worth the extra cost for a home processor.

hankus46
I’ll check out the binder snd fiberous casing and smoke and will also reduce grind size.
Thanks again

NelsonMV We all learn from mistakes whether our own or someone else’s post. I know I gained so much knowledge from this sight over the years.

Dave in AZ great job on posting time- temperature table! People can see that it’s not just an opinion on temperature, it’s a fact.

johnsbrewhouse that was a good catch John. I thought it was an odd post. On;y thing I use powdered milk for is sausage and making a hot chocolate mix.

hankus46
Thx:) However, it sounds like you’re more experienced than me probably! I’ve just done small 1kg ones.
But I dont see any reason you can’t vacuum tumble at all. Not sure about replacing the mixing… tumbling is usually intended to spread injection liquid around inside large hams or bacon. Mixing on other hand is intended to extract protein, which is really what you want for formed hams. The meat chunks are small enough to cure from outside pretty quick. But I’m sure tumbling also extracts protein, just not sure it actually adds anything to formed ham.

Love to hear how it goes!

akdave Curing salts have been used for thousands of years using naturally occurring sodium nitrate in salt deposits. It wasn’t until the late 1800 hundreds that the use of nitrite became popular and understood. I read somewhere that they probably didn’t understand the process prior to that but knew that certain salts fixed the red color and kept the meat preserved for an extended period of time compared to other salts. While today we use commercially produced nitrates/nitrites contrary to popular belief they are found in nature.

Thank you for the help! When asking my wife, she says she wants no “tanginess”. Seals the deal for me; no ECA.

Dave in AZ said in What does Willies taste like?:

I just re-read the thread title, and laughed and laughed…

Dave I think an “A” has been edited out of the title to clean it up a bit. 😂 😂 😂

Dave in AZ Thanks Dave!
It is the process that an item is cured changes the amount mostly, then the product has to fit the process. Does that boil it down to a simplified answer?

HerbcoFood It’ll be fine for near 6 months, but, like you say,

HerbcoFood filled with Jiffy!

I have had to do the same thing. You will need to add more water to the mix in order to stuff it or you may hurt or even brake your stuffer.

I am getting ready to smoke two pieces of bacon tomorrow and I used the Sweeter than Sweet cure adjusted to 1.33 lbs per gallon for a pickle. On the ‘How to make bacon’ video they recommend using 1.52 lbs per gallon of the Country Brown sugar cure in a pickle but the Sweeter than Sweet cure has a higher nitrite concentration which is why I adjusted the weight of the cure down from the 1.52 lbs/gal suggested cure. I am sure you could adapt the recipe to use it as an injection w/enhancers. Hopefully , someone else will chime in with a direct application addressing your desired process.

johnsbrewhouse The problem with the Excalibur MRT sugar cure is that it has both nitrate and nitrite in it so that rules it out for making bacon.

Denny O this is how I figure it out. The 75% is 75% of 100%. The 25% is 25% of 100%. So if we have 100lbs. Of meat, 75 pounds is lean meat, 25lbs. Is fat. So if I added the 25lbs. Of fat to the 75 lbs. Of lean, I’ll have 100lbs.

jblick21 that should make you a great smoker. Congrats and good luck 👍

Jonathon thank you for your expertise. I’m looking back in time to before the German war when sausage makers choose the best temperatures for their sausage meat and their spices. Then came the war. Polish people, Jews, and others were terminated. We almost lost the sacred recipes of the past. Government agencies were in charge of what meats, spices, and temperatures were allowed. For a long time, you were only allowed pork in making kielbasa garlic sausage. Later you were allowed some beef as the story goes. If you added other ingredients it was not considered a certain sausage type. You could rename it like “Jon’s Sausage” for instance.

Thanks for sharing it is great people like you that make the sausage making experience fun.

Dave in AZ said in Smooth acid in pepperoni:

Lastly, a few folks HAVE left it sit overnight mixed in and said they didn’t see a texture loss. Maybe it was mrobisr. So it may work… but not a “best practice” if you can avoid.

I agree that avoiding it is best, but if you cannot I have NEVER had a problem ever, so don’t worry do what you have to do.

TCost That’s the nice part, we usually get to eat our mistakes and learn from them and try again til we get it right.

Jonathon you doing a great job! I’m half-Polish. I figured what good am I to be Polish and not make Polish sausage? I do make other sausages that aren’t Polish. I appreciate your work and what you do. A lot of the sausages I make are not in the stores.

Bunch of good information here from Dave in AZ calldoctoday and others but I would say there are 3 main reasons we want to let the cure sit in the meat overnight.
1 - safety, specifically (though not limited to) in a vacuum pack. Botulism is a nasty little b****r and it can grow JUST fine in a air-free environment, sure cure prevents it from growing
2 - flavor preservation
3 - color development and preservation

Spidey I thought that only happened to me.

Has anyone ever had a problem with 40 mm collagen ring bologna casings not wanting to peel off?

djman69465 said in 80/20 ground beef extruded jerky in a dehydrator:

kyle LOL ill try and watch the my “language”.

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

Jonathon
Hurts more because I did it for a friend.
Thanks for your input.

Thank you everyone!

Jonathon thanks for your reply. I’ve given up on using the MRT cure due to the nitrate and will use some of the Sweeter than Sweet cure instead to make a pickle for these first few pork bellies I have ready for curing. I’ve done the math to correct the weight(1.33 lbs) of the cure per gallon to give me 120 ppm ingoing nitrite as per Walton’s bacon pickle recipe. I need to order some more Country Brown Sugar cure for some hams I am going to do and I will add some of the Blue Ribbon bacon cure to give it a try on the pork bellies that are next on the list for processing.

jakeanderton I have the same grinder, and same problem. Traced it down to the hole in plate where the auger comes thru. A little sloppy metal to metal connection. Nothing I think you can do about it. Like smokinbubba says, just pluck it out, and keep going. It does it even when I grind frozen meat, so I don’t think it’s a heat thing. If it is, it a heat thing right at that spot.

Ridley Acres I really enjoyed your post about your hog processing. It was a real family affair. I’m from Wisconsin and I grew up with Sheboygan, Usinger’s, Klement’s and Southside Sausage brats. I looked at the ingredients in the 1503 and saw that it didn’t have sage or marjoram to give them their distinctive German flavor. I think the 1503 would be kind of plain tasting (imho).

DHardy The RH inside the smoker makes a huge difference. We bake bread, cookies, pies and such in our Traegers and the added humidity really helps. Even doing sausage & poultry it helps to keep the skin tender instead of becoming leathery. IT also helps with getting by the stall point when doing larger items, i.e. roasts, butts and summer sausage. Search Walton’s for the subject of; “Preventing and getting past the stall”. Learning to control the RH in your smoker can help improve your end result.

wvotrfan looks good 👍 congrats

calldoctoday Interesting, I just spotted it today at the West Wichita Academy

Jonathon Great! I cannot wait to try it with the stuff we have here. Alex or Andrew better hurry up & get a deer or I am going to have to find the beef.

I make braunswiger yearly 50%wild game liver50%pork emulsify in food processor stuff 2 1/2 by 12 sausage casings vac pac then poach 175° water to 155 then cool over night then remove vac bag and cold smoke about 3 hrs

bocephus I even have shark in the freezer…going to do a will-it bbq soon. I have one that was all ready for tomorrow and it was HORRIBLE but Austin isn’t going to be here. So we will push it out a week or so.

Jonathon thanks you guy’s , more information, that’s what I like. Gives me more things to consider when sausage making. Just thought that maybe too much water, or not enough water, would effect the bind or something. I think I’ve been going a little lean in the water department, going to bump it up a little. Thanks again.

Jamieson22 you couldnuse them to make spam, it has some premade ham in it, or could!

bocephus 🤣 🤣

Grimpuppy said in Walton’s Hot Links:

I have done it both ways. I prefer the sure gel on small batch that I mix by hand. It is easier to get good protein extraction. I don’t use it on bigger batch that I use my mixer. I don’t notice a difference on overall product quality.

This was a year and a couple months ago. Have learned a ton from everyone here. I use sure gel in every cured sausage now.

smokinbubba you had a busy day

angel4us I take boneless breasts and since about 1/8 to 1/4 thick and just dehydrate the dog’s love em as is no spices

Dave in AZ Excellent advice

zbigjeff I can imagine how that would help. The more liquid, up to any limits you can add seems to make stuffing much easier. I will have to try that & bump it up a bit.

bocephus yes, I agree! And I do appreciate all the knowledge, and opinions.

They hold together good. It takes some effort to tear it apart.

Grimpuppy don’t add it to standing water. There is a xhance it will gas out and that can cause a dangerous cloud. Now, if you want to add it to your dry seasoning and drag your meat through it then soak it overnight that will be okay. Just can’t dump large amounts into standing water!

Grimpuppy that looks great. Congrats 👍 and thanks alot. 😊

Jamieson22 With the grip and pressure I stuff the mahogany 2+" casings I get 3 pounds in each and there is no room for air. Sometimes if I use a tad extra water it too wants to seep out too!

mfrievalt
Sorry, I am not sure on granulated garlic, I like to use minced garlic at 1 ounce per 3 lbs of meat but you better like garlic!

Yes just add between 10-15% more seasoning than for the brats. Have used it with both pork and chicken to make sticks, the chicken came out very good.

Clasko2 Thanks chef, glad to hear!

Zellhouse glad you had a successful first time. It is really satisfying to make your own products at home!

Denny O they look great brother. Congrats 👍

Denny O I learned that trick from “ Eckkehard The German Butcher” on YouTube.

Any easy way is to see how many oz. and convert to Tbl spoons measure cure and seasoning like that all the time

badexpresso said in Sure Cure and Encapsulated Citric Acid Use:

To answer my own question:

What is Sure Cure (Salt for Curing Meat) - Seasoning and Additives 104

Sure Cure goes by many names Cure #1, Prague Powder, Instacure #1 , but it is all the same stuff.

They are all roughly 94% salt and 6% sodium nitrite, and all used at the recommended rate of 1 ounce per 25 lbs of meat.

MCURRAN Oh man my mouth is watering, that looks great.

Spidey Thanks!

wdaly Thank You

Dadgum. I’m so out of touch!

This Smooth Acid sounds like something I’d like to try. I’ve done 20 lbs. of Summer sausage this week, but it’s all been with ECA. Now, I like the tang, so I’m hardly upset about all this, but I’m dying to try the Smooth Acid now! As much as I do like the ECA, I expect that I will prefer the lactic acid (I usually do).

alanburkholder thus is how I do it too now 😉
That instantpot is awesome for broth making.

I don’t have any experience with it but cabbage rolls with carrot in it would be a complement I would think. Makin my mouth water!😆

cdavis thanks for the welcome

Geez looks like I need to be cleaning up a smoker! 😖

Larry Tumblin Wholey cow, look at the deep color that you achieved!! Impressive!!!

JAXALLIE welcome. As you see the answers you get here are meant to make you better . I love the non-trolling atmosphere and all the wisdom.

I bought an injector I’m gonna try for my next batch of bacon. I’m using Walton’s blue ribbon maple brine with flavor enhancer.!

B442084C-F2C1-47DF-A894-1751F4DCB8C2.png

Spidey said in Forgot the Sure Gel.:

gus4416 […], but I am not in a hurry when I make sausage.

Lol, this made me laugh! Because I’m the same way, not in a hurry…when I start! But it seems always to take more time than expected, and somehow somewhere in there I end up in a rush at the end! Usually when I hear, “Daaaaad! I’m trying to sleep for school tomorrow!!”

Jonathon Time to grow that beard out.

processhead said in A few Summer Sausage questions:

preheating the water to somewhere above the target IT temperature

On larger batch’s that is exactly what I do, I have a smaller as well as a much larger Styrofoam cooler that I use to help maintain the temp. As a brewer there are programs that even tell you what temp to go over so when grains are added the perfect temp is reached.

chippewa I usesd 17 lbs of venison and 8 lbs of pork butt, Ps seasoning 666-B , carrot binder, red pepper flakes and cheddar hot melt cheese

Basscat sure you can but you don’t need 160.
Here are the things to remember:

Combine those 2 rules to dry however you’d like. Its the same starting with raw meat, or thawed stuff… just your thawed sticks won’t have as large of a bacteria load regrown yet.

So… I personally would toss all your bags into sous vide at 145 or 150, let them all get to 140f or so to reaccomplish your moist pathogen lethality treatment, THEN spread them out on trays in convection oven and dry keeping IT above 130 but below 150. Or use a dehydrator. Or stick in a temp controlled smoker with airflow.

Everything you need to know is in Appendix A for the USFDA FSIS Meat cooking booklet, google.

Anyone have the #32 Dual grinder from L*M ? Wondering if it’s worth the money?? Grind 200 to 300 a weekend would love cut down grind time …

Fritz were you going to post something about this?

Jerry Ellingson If I had to guess, I’d say it is an issue with the plate, is the 2nd grind using the same knife as the 1st grind, or do you have a knife for each plate?
mdseaside suggestion is a good one but the only thing that I can come up with is too much going down the throat at once. On the second grind, you want to add small amounts down, this will actually speed up the grind. Denny O I like the trickle term!

Another possible cause is a crack in your plate. Hit it on some solid metal, or hit it with something solid metal gently. It should have a clear ring to it. If it has a crack it is going to make it so the knife can’t seat snugly against the plate, this could cause that. HerbcoFood I think if the knife was in backwards it would have been done the same on the first grind, which sounds like it did it no problem.

Dwain Erhart
Welcome, I see you just joined, and this is your first post.
Usually, a well-written recipe is NOT for a specific meat quantity. Rather, the recipe is given as % of the meat block, or like g per kg. That way folks don’t have to convert if they want to make 1, 2 or 10kg, just easy multiply.

In this case, if you look more closely at the recipe than you did, you’ll see every ingredient is listed as grams per kg of meat. So this recipe is for 1kg meat, or 2.2 lbs. Using metric and weighing all ingredients is absolutely they way to go.

Someone else asked the exact same thing, if you just read the post right above yours… 😉

Coby Dixon said in Irish Sausage:

arnprior what size meat block is this recipe for?

arnprior said in Irish Sausage:

The recipe is in grams per kilogram… so you can scale it to the amount of meat you have.

j.michael cominskie yes 26-28

Grimpuppy yah, what you said 😉 I said not for smoking, but indeed I meant hanging them in smoker. I do like fresh 21mm sticks from smoker, laid out on racks to smoke, for kabanosy.

mrobisr I’ve been there before.

Dave in AZ thanks Dave! I appreciate the method used, I’ll certainly be trying it.

Labels look nice, sticks look yummy, but worried about labels coming off once frozen. I’ve had this issue before, if you put the labels inside bags, that would be awesome.

IVERYAN I’ve used some in the past that were years old too and never had a problem , but like you I always make sure they are well packed in salt.

John Belvedere I am thinking of adding that fan to my MB.

Jason 1
I make my Willie’s snack sticks with cheese and would recommend it for summer sausage.

Jamieson22 ohhh those look really nice.

Basscat
I’m gonna vote NO, but then I’m gonna waffle and add, fajitas often have some vinegar and lime juice in their seasoning, rest is close to taco. Soo… if you like fajitas flavor more than taco, I’d add the ECA!

Dave in AZ Looks like you got a bit. I am still splitting wood & loving it, but not like I used to & not due to age, but we just don’t burn it like we used to. We still hand split all our smoking wood though. If I recall correctly, Arizona Ash is a fast growing tree & not sure of the smoking value. A cord (not a face cord) would be 128 cubic feet, no matter how you measure it. Folks get confused with the face cord vs full cord thing & the measurements, but just stick with the 128 cubes. As far as price, I have no idea these days as we still cut our own when we need it & do not buy any & I am too poor to pay attention. Also, do everything you can to stay away from those HOAs. I got involved with them when we were still in Texas in the late 70’s, early 80’s & tried to do some good things & not a bunch of cookie cutter whatever, but it was a loosing battle, so I have made every effort to stay away from them any more if at all possible & that is the very short story.

all of my ground and formed jerky formulas have the seasoning usage the same as whole muscle

mrobisr I am right there beside you…

weirich76
1669952071111-20221201_182358.jpg

Hey, here is a pic I posted in another thread today where I froze some ground meat and fat, cut to cubes, then reground. In this case I used food processor and did this for max coldness during emulsify step.

This is what I mentioned above 😉

Ridley Acres Deepwoodsbutcher I am touched and honored…31

For snack sticks I use 1.5 oz. of water per lb. of meat.

Brendan 0 We picked up some pork loins at that price. Also picked up a few more Boston butts from albertson’s $0.97 LB. Always like to have some on hand when prices are good. Two going into the smoker tomorrow for pulled pork.

Brendan 0 I always use a binder in summer sausage it helps create a solid tube which slices great and looks good. In links carrot fiber is great due to it’s water retention for a juicier product

SWicky No, I am saying with fully hydrated saskatoons I tried 3 different batches and my family and friends liked the 20% best…so I suggest you make smaller batches and find out what you and yours like best. Let us know. Cheers

Sounds interesting! Would like to use some chicken breast instead of always using thigh meat. What kind of store bought seasoning? Name brand or just a local mix? Is it Italian flavored?