There's a reason why Waltons says Willie's is their #1 seller. Bloody Mary is good too.

Standard cures like insta cure #1 and Sure Cure contain salt and 6.25% sodium nitrate. The cure that comes with a “kit” usually contains salt, sugar and .85% sodium nitrate. That is the difference between the two. The .85% sodium nitrate in a “kit” is the reason most of them only cures 10-15 pounds of meat even though their cure packet is around 4oz. There is no binder in the kits I have used in the past. When I make it “non kit” I use sure gel.

Jonathon looks like ill be ordering some and giving it a try. Thanks

KD has been injured since the beginning of camp. No matter how much talent you have, last night showed you have to practice. The other thing is, without Kelce on the field, we do not have a #1 that can take over a game.

@Brookey1 For 2 lbs of meat you would use 1.12 ounce of seasoning and .08 ounces of Cure #1. If you are weighing in grams that would be 32 grams of seasoning and 2.3 grams of Cure#1 @Austin @Jonathon You may want to review the web page for this seasoning. There is an inconsistency between the seasoning usage for 25 lbs of meat and 100 lbs of meat.

@Curbeekat Yes, a few times. When I made it I used a dry rub cure made of salt, sugar, and Cure #1. I was happy with the finished product and actually had some of it in a BLT this noon. I have not used the Blue Ribbon Bacon cure before. After rereading your first post, you were asking about using the Blue ribbon as a dry rub. The instructions are in fact for a pumped cure which was not what you asked about. Apologies for the confusion on my part.

This may be a long post but with all the different opinions and information on sous vide summer sausage I thought I would do an experiment. I found the results to be very interesting and thought I would share what I found. I will attach all the information for you to view. The experiment was on a five pound batch that was mixed, stuffed and sat at least over night in the fridge. I did this experiment with 1 pound chubs, one chub at a time using an MES 40 smoker and were put in a small container with a sous vide unit and "cooked" according to Baldwins pasturization chart. Chubs were not put in bags for the sous vide. All chubs were numbered and the information gathered was closely monitored. The results I found were very little to no difference in texture between the 5 different chubs. There was a slight amount of fat rendered between each sausage but a slightly bigger difference between #1 and #5 sausage.      

If you are looking for smoked kielbasa, I highly recommend Ethan Chlebowski's family recipe as shown on his YouTube channel. It is excellent. Of course, you could also do it as fresh instead of smoked, just leave out the #1 curing salt.

@Dave-in-AZ If you are only going to be cooking to an IT of 164 in less than 3 hours in SV why use cure #1?

@processhead said in [Corned Beef to die for\.](/post/120422): > IMO the the pastrami recipe would likely be incompletely cured and uncured in the center since it is just an overnight brining. From a food safety standpoint I would suggest a longer brining time with the addition of Cure #1. > > I think you could really set off the color and flavor when smoking the pastrami by adding the requisite amount of Cure #1 powder to the brine and curing several days minimum. From a food safety standpoint it would be a good idea as well since pastrami is traditionally prepared at lower temperatures like ham and other cured meats are. Paul, did you see they are using the "Corned Beef" that had the center brine pumped and let cure for 10 days that had #1 cure in it?

IMO the the pastrami recipe would likely be incompletely cured and uncured in the center since it is just an overnight brining. From a food safety standpoint I would suggest a longer brining time with the addition of Cure #1. I think you could really set off the color and flavor when smoking the pastrami by adding the requisite amount of Cure #1 powder to the brine and curing several days minimum. From a food safety standpoint it would be a good idea as well since pastrami is traditionally prepared at lower temperatures like ham and other cured meats are.

J.O. #1 seasoning. Similar to old bay a little better I believe. It's not hard to over use it though

@Cindy-Bushar-0 1 5# pork loin 5.67g/1 tsp #1 pink salt cure 45g/2.0% salt 34g/1.5% white sugar or 1/2 cup brown sugar/maple syrup Mix all dry ingredients together and distribute on loin then vac pack Cure for 7 days/inch of thickness turning daily When time is complete remove and rinse completely with running water Cook in 170f water until internal temperature of 150 Place in open container in refrigerator for 2 days After 2 days slice and eat or freeze

@George-Johnson said in [Curing seasonings](/post/118837): > Re: [Roll Call (Start Here First)](/topic/16/roll-call-start-here-first) > If I'm using speed cure can I use or should I use encapsulated citric too? Speed cure is the same as Instacure #1 and other curing salts based on 6.25% Sodium Nitrite and salt. There are two functions that ECA performs and the decision to use it should be based on those two functions. 1) ECA add a tangy fermented sausage flavor to certain types of sausage. 2) ECA acts as a cure accelerator when using Cure #1 or equivalent, so that you can smoke cured sausage immediately after stuffing without it holding overnight. So, if you are looking for adding some fermented sausage flavor to your sausage, then ECA is one way to achieve that. If you are just looking to speed up the curing of the sausage, then there are other products out there that will do that without changing the flavor like ECA does.

@processhead Even though I quit charcoal for the most part I am wholeheartedly on your page about it still being #1 for cooking fuel!! As far as taste of finished product the other alternatives still fall short, and why these small lumps of already burned wood cook meat so well will probably remain one of life's great mysteries!! I'm still using a propane fired Charbroil Infrared unit that I really like. The juices from your meat fall down onto the "infrared" emitting plates and burn creating tons of smoke that goes back up into the meat. I don't know why I bothered about that, every body knows how they work. Anyway my favorite part of this grill is the rotisserie, especially for pork butts! I brine them with a combination of salt, pepper, onion, garlic, brown sugar and Worcestershire sauce in apple juice/water mix, plus inject them with the same stuff. If I wasn't so electronically dumb I could post some pics of these finished, they turn out gorgeous and taste even better. Oh and my homemade pork rub too. I don't know why but this grill only uses about half the propane that my old grill did. Then I have three other units which are primarily smokers and are all electric but for the old Brinkmann dome lid unit also has a big charcoal pan so I still play with that occasionally. I really like the way the pellet grills cook, I have a young friend who is on his second Pit Boss and it functions beautifully, meat even comes out with the classic smoke ring but not much smoke flavor. Well I'm getting off subject here again but what the heck!!

An article/recipe I read on smoked Andouille recommended cold smoke for 10-12 hrs then cook to temp to serve. Also said hot smoking sausage to a cooked temp is fine as well (meaning no cold smoke process) but that the cold smoking method develops a deeper, richer flavor. I have never dry cured chunks of meat. But I will say that I know folks who brine cure chunks of meat b4 grinding. Usually I grind, add spice and water with cure, mix, stuff and let sit overnight in fridge. It is curing in a ground stuffed form versus chunks of meat form. It just seems to me that a stuffed ground meat sausage would cure more efficiently than chunks of meat especially when using small amounts of Tender Quick granules/powder or Instacure #1. Just my take but I am no food safety expert so I cannot explain the science behind the curing process so take this with a grain of salt. Call your local butcher or local county USDA folks for safe sausage making practices.

@Jonathon said in [Silly Question](/post/117859): > @Derslayer1 AHH the age old question! You will see different people do it differently. For example, if someone is adding 2 lb of cheese and their seasoning weighs 2 lb and they are adding 1 lb of water then SOME people will use 20 lb of meat (lean and fat) and others will add 25 lb of meat. Personally, when I am doing a 25 lb batch I calculate in the cheese but not the water or seasoning. There is no right answer in my mind, it is whatever you want to do. For some, the extra seasoning per lb of meat will make it too salty, for others it will give a better flavor. So, all in what you want! How about adjustments for cure #1? In my mind, the cure addition needs to be correct for the weight of animal protein used, and no adjustment made for other additives.

@Derslayer1 Surecure #1 and all the products like it out there assume you are adding 1 oz to 25 lbs total combined weight of meat/fat. Non-meat additives like spices and binders are excluded from the gross weight used for the cure amount used.

@GWG8541 It is from SIG and they are promoting it so I am assuming #1 is a yes.....#2 is a no though. I think I now understand women with accessories like earings and bracelets and stuff

From Marianski, Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausages. You should buy, it is #1 sausage reference: Soy Proteins Soybeans contain all three of the nutrients required for good nutrition: complete protein, carbohydrate and fat, as well as vitamins and minerals, including calcium, foolish acid and iron. The composition of soy protein is nearly equivalent in quality to meat, milk and egg protein. Soybean oil contains no cholesterol. Soy concentrates and isolates are used in sausages, burgers and other meat products. Soy proteins when mixed with ground meat will form a gel upon heating, entrapping liquid and moisture. They increase firmness and juiciness of the product, and reduce cooking loss during frying. In addition they enrich the protein content of many products and make them healthier by reducing the amount of saturated fat and cholesterol that otherwise would be present. Soy protein powders are the most commonly added protein to meat products at around 2-3% as the larger amounts may impart a “beany” flavor to the product. They bind water extremely well and cover fat particles with fine emulsion. This prevents fats from lumping together. The sausage will be juicier, plumper and have less shrivelling. Soy protein concentrate (about 60% protein), available from most online distributors of sausage making supplies is a natural product that contains around 60% protein and retains most of the soybean’s dietary fiber. SPC can bind 4 parts of water. However, soy concentrates do not form the real gel as they contain some of the insoluble fiber that prevents gel formation; they only form a paste. Before processing, soy protein concentrate is re-hydrated at a ratio of 1:3. Soy protein isolate (80-90% protein), is a natural product that contains at least 80-90% protein and no other ingredients. It is made from de-fatted soy meal by removing most of the fats and carbohydrates. Therefore, soy protein isolate has a very neutral flavour compared to other soy products. As soy protein isolate is more refined, it costs slightly more than soy protein concentrate. Soy protein isolate can bind 5 parts of water. Soy isolates are excellent emulsifiers of fat and their ability to produce the real gel contributes to the increased firmness of the product. Isolates are added to add juiciness, cohesiveness, and viscosity to a variety of meat, seafood, and poultry products. This enhances both the nutritional quality and taste of meat products. For making quality sausages the recommended mixing ratio is 1 part of soy protein isolate to 3.3 parts of water. SPI is chosen for delicate products that require superior flavor such as yoghurt, cheese, whole muscle foods and healthy drinks. Soy protein isolates sold by health products distributors online usually contain 92% of protein. In reduced fat sausages animal fat can be partly or completely replaced with a vegetable oil. In such a case the protein : oil : water emulsion can be made. Binder Binder/fat/water ratio Average amount Added as Milk caseinate 1:5:5 to 1:8:8 2% in relation to meat mass Dry powder or premixed emulsion Soy protein isolate 1:4:5 2% in relation to meat mass Dry powder or premixed emulsion In the past soy protein isolate cost twice as much as soy protein concentrate and the concentrate became an obvious choice for the majority of products. Soy protein isolate it still costlier today, but not as much, so a hobbyist’s decision will be based not on economics, but on the application. Soy isolates are excellent emulsifiers of fat and their ability to produce gel contributes to the increased firmness of the product. For these reasons they may be chosen over soy protein concentrate for making liver and emulsified sausages. Soy protein concentrates do not form the real gel as they contain some of the insoluble fiber that prevents gel formation; they only form a paste. This does not create a problem as the sausage batter will never be emulsified to the extent that the yoghurt or smoothie drinks are. Soy protein concentrate is carried by all distributors of sausage making equipment and supplies online.

Grimpuppy said in Boudin:

25 pounds pork butt, cubed
4 pounds beef liver
6 hole onions diced
6 bell peppers diced
2 bags whole celery then sliced
16 oz minced garlic
1 whole bag Excalibur Boudin seasoning
2 one pound bags white rice
25 stalks green onion
5 bunches parsley

Add pork, liver, onions, bell peppers, celery, garlic and boudin seasoning to lug and mix well by hand. I split into two lugs because of quantity. Cover with plastic wrap and put in the fridge overnight.

Next day add everything from the lugs to a big pot. I used a 30 qt turkey fryer. Fill pot with water till everything is covered by an inch or two. Turn on burner and bring to a boil and then turn down heat and simmer for 4 hours stirring occasionally.

While your meat blend is cooking, prepare your rice. I used my instant pot and cooked two batches of #1 each. Also use this time to thinly slice your green onions and finely chop your parsley, an clean your meat lugs. Set aside the rice, green onion and parsley. This is also a good time to get your hog casings soaking.

After 4 hours remove your meat mix from the burner. Use a spider scoop everything out of your meat pot into a lug. Once I get most of it out, I pour the remains into an 18 qt spaghetti pot that has a strainer insert to get any remaining big chunks. When transferred dump the remains from the strainer into your lug of meat. Now put a fine screen strainer over your 30 qt pot and pour your liquid back into the 30 qt pot. Add the contents of the strainer to your meat lug. Reserve the liquid for later.

Add your rice, green onions, and parsley to your meat mixture. Mix by hand for a couple minutes till rice, onions, and parsley is well dispersed.

Break out your stand mixer with the paddle attachment. Add 6 cups of your meat/rice mixture to mixing bowl. Skim one cup of fat off the top of your reserved liquid and one cup of juice from under the fat. Add to your mixing bowl and mix on speed of 2 for a couple minutes. Transfer bowl contents to a clean lug. Repeat process till you all meat is done.

Break out your stuffer and stuff into hog casings. I prefer 30-32mm but you can use any size you like. You can stuff the mixture while it is still warm. No need to cool it down first. Vac bag it up and freeze.

To serve, thaw your package of boudin. Place in oven or on grill. 300 degrees for about 10 minutes. Just need to bring internal up to 160 degrees and enjoy.

That looks fantastic, consider it stolen…By the way, I envisioned some sort of cajun pascetti so I put some boudin out to thaw last night & provided some instructions for Margaret to make same sort of Cajun Pascetti today in the Crock pot using Boudin as the meat. I hope it turns out half as good as yours looks!

@deweymeats said in [Measured Cure wrong](/post/115390): > Sorry. No cure Accelerators, 17lbs 4 ounces and used the .04 oz times 17. I measured the meat block to have the same amount in two different containers for easier to handle and mixing by hand. That’s where I Made the possible mistake. Did I add too much Cure because either I split it correctly into each or put the total amount in each. I m leaning toward all is good but I’m still trying to clear my mind. Thanks for your input guys. If you used the amount you state above, 17.25 lbs x .04 oz, = .**68 ounces of Cure #1,** then that is the correct amount. Is this the amount you used?

@jake-Kar-Wal Heres the cervelat recipe I use, It's an old Butte Montana meat block recipe. Cervelat 1oz Ground Black Pepper 9 oz Salt 3 oz Powdered Dextrose 1/4 oz Coriander 1/4 oz Ground Mustard 1 oz Cure #1 1/4 oz Garlic Powder 4 oz Encapsulated Citric Acid OR (12 oz Fermento, Preferred) 19 lbs 80/20 Beef or 15lbs Venison/4lbs Suet 6 lbs Pork Shoulder Grind twice through 3/16" Plate Add Spices and Emulsify Thoroughly. Stuff Tightly in 2 1/2" Fibrous Casings.

You can use the feet and ears for anything that needs a lot of gelatin... the classic use is something like head cheese, where you boil it up to get the collagen and gelatin out, then mix in other meat chunks. With vinegar it is called Souse. However, my #1 use would be for Scrapple. Or just super thick, gelatin, soup stock. But if it was more than prk butt, or 1.90 a pound, I'd pass.

@Jesser #1, I agree with Paul. Meat is 70% water, held in place in protein bonds etc. When you freeze it, the ice crystals mess up that bond, and water leaks out. In whole muscle, it only leaks from surface, and interior gets mostly reabsorbed. But in ground meat, it leaks from surface...which is everywhere. I freeze meat in chunks, and try not to do ground frozen. #2. There are tons of SV threads where folks express opinions on bagged vs unbagged. I probably posted remarks both ways. Some juice gets in water. Cooked sausage, like smoked, has less juice come out, so less worry there for unbagged. Most folks say no loss of smoke flavor. Poaching in water has been the German go-to method, forever. But sometimes if I only hit the smoke for 1 hr or 2, and I want it all, I bag them to be sure all smoke stays on. -- tenderness of casings. Most folks say long drying of casings is what causes toughness. Moist cooking seems to help. I'm not totally sure myself, as I don't think my casings are tough often enough to form an opinion. Some 8 hr smoked TX hotlinks were tough, won't do that again.

@Dave-in-AZ hi Dave I have a couple of questions if you would be kind enough to answer #1 I cut up a pork butt and put back in freezer. ground the meat later and got ready to mix in spices and noticed the ground meat was really wet. Have NOT added anything yet. No water nothing. NEVER experienced this before, texture was if I had added to much water. Could this be from refreezing, old meat or something else? #2 when processing smoke sausage in hog casings like Walton’s hot links smoke first and you bag before Sous vide or just toss links in SV after smoking? Trying to resolve issue of tough casings. Thanks

@tracyezzell That is a lot of meat to do salami on an untried recipe... most salamis are like 1 lb! I don't like any salami enough to eat 20 lbs of it! I have usually just made 2 salami at a time, like 3 lbs total. Here is my opinion on salami and "recipes": they've been making this stuff for hundreds of years, to the best flavor they can. There is little or no need to experiment, and certainly not when just starting out. Making a salami is a BIG time and effort commitment, it's not like throwing together a mango habanero maple brat and cooking and eating in 2 hrs. I recommend you just pick an existing, known salami, and make it. If you don't know what you like, just go to a charcuterie store and buy a bit of several, then pick one. Meanwhile, go over to YouTube channel, 2guysandaCooler, and scroll through the 70 or so salami he has made, listen to his tasting notes, may help you decide. Salami flavor is developed from secondary ferments and bacterial processes over time...same way natural flavors like strawberry, pineapple, banana, clove, etc. are fermented and extracted. So I'd steer clear of crazy recipes and look to the culture as primary flavor. Tspx, flavor of Italy, FLC, etc have characteristic flavors. I like firm, harder salami. So I like 1.5 to 2", so it dries faster and well, and I always go to at least 40% weight loss vs. More common 35%. Here's ones I like you might try: 1. Sopressata. Similar to hot Italian fresh sausage in spices. Most purchased by me. 2. Felino. A 1.5" diam, peppercorn and wine. Good red color. I made this with a faster culture, FLC, which does a strong ferment...and I didn't account for sugars in wine, so I got a pH of 4.5, pretty low and sourly. I liked it, and it matches your peppery sour taste. Mine was maybe a "mistake" vs normal Felino, but would make this way again. 3. Pepperoni. Main reason I built a chamber lol, I frigging love pepperoni. Good acid, good heat, peppery. My #1 go to always unless something convinces me to stray. 4. I like a Tuscan or Toscano salami, it has larger fat chunks I like, and is darker. Closest I've had to Lebanon baloney look, which I like. 5. I don't like Genoa or Cotto salami. Hope that rundown is helpful. Eric has 70 or more types, watch his videos ;)

@PaPaSmokes Too Long, Didn't Read (TLDR): Your smoked sausage looks totally fine. I feel like you have a false expectation of what a smoked sausage looks like, making you less happy with end product than you should be! A few things you said lead me to conclude your expectations may be off. Those SMOKED SAUSAGES look fine! Here is what you're saying that makes me think you're possibly confused on expected results. 1. You keep saying BRATS. THESE ARE NOT BRATS!! Bratwurst is a FRESH UNCOOKED sausage, that is then FAST COOKED. In Germany, it is usually cooked in 170f water by poaching. You can then put brown marks on it in a pan or grill. --Alternative cooking is just raw then straight to a pan, or grill, cooked high like 300f and up, done in 20 minutes. However, this does not produce as good results as poaching (or sous vide) first, as the high heat on raw un-denatured proteins will cause fat to melt out, lising juiciness. Also the casings tend to pop due to steam produced before meat is denatured i.e. cooked. 2. SMOKED sausages, cooked at 130 to 180f external smoker temps usually, look just like yours. They only achieve color from smoke, they do not exhibit the browning from Maillard reaction, very much. Maillard takes place at 250f and above really. If you are looking to get a smoked sausage that looks like a BRATWURST OFF GRILL OR PAN, then you will be dissappointed. 3. Maybe you got led to this expectation by false claims and incorrect use of terminology on some popular YouTube channels... I watch Chudds and Smokin Joes Pit BBQ, and I don't think I have ever seen a video where they use correct terminology! They constantly say they are "cold smoking" stuff when really it is 150 to 170f, not below 75f that Cold Smoking refers to. Both those guys, and tons more, are BBQ guys, cooking on grills at 225 and up, not smoking! All the nice reddish brown sausages they show are fast cooked usually in a 225f and hotter grill. 4. The recipe and seasoning you used, BB Mango Tango BRATURST seasoning... isn't for a smoked sausage, it is for a bratwurst. Being confused about what a bratwurst is and how it is cooked, led you to think there might be Cure1 in the mix, I think. It has mango, jalapeno, and maple sugar, that's about it!! Barely any salt, though some is listed in their maple sugar flavoring pack...but no nutritional labeling, so you can't determine how much. I would never use a product like that, where the salt content is a complete guess. If you can't ensure 1.5 to 1.7% salt, normal saltiness for sausage, I'd add my own. --Why do I care about salt? Salt is the #1 thing that locks up water, lowers Aw, and inhibits bacterial growth while you are heating up meat through the danger zone! With little or no salt, bacteria are much faster to grow. Since the crux of your concern here is "Did my sausage get to lethality temps fast enough to keep bacteria or botulism from growing?", I am adding this note on salt so you know how it helps, for future cooks. Ok, I need to go get another Mai Tai, hope that helps!

@Jesser I don’t know for a fact but I believe it was Habanero BBQ. Willies is my #4 on the list. W Beef Stick is my #1

Jesser I make all mine all flavors with venison, pork and pork fat

Well, that's a bracket buster! SE Warren Ia coach, " Truly a David vs. Goliath". Tallest team vs the shortest team in the tourney? Perdue the overall #1 seed has left the building. This is only the 2nd time in history that a #16 seed has beaten a #1 seed. Is it the first time that the #1 overall seed has lost to a #16?

@mdseaside said in [Cure for summer sausage not involving nitrite](/post/111417): > Maybe this will help. Sometimes I use my smoker as an oven to cook my summer sausage with no smoke. So if I am cooking in a High oxygen atmosphere do I need nitrite in my mix? > Maybe someone can help answer this question. I don't think the issue is whether you smoke or don't smoke. The issue is the relatively low temperatures over a long period of time during typical thermal processing of sausage. Also consider that regardless of how much oxygen is around the outside of a sausage, the meat inside is sealed in a relatively oxygen free environment where anaerobic spores could grow under the right temperature conditions. It is this period of time in the danger zone that that calls for the use of cure #1.

@Keith-Roever I think we may need a bit more detail on your process. When you say you are making "cold cure summer sausage" can you describe how you are doing this? Can you tell us what temperature your smoke house is at through the smoke cycle? I am suspecting the smoke cycle is fairly cool to barely warm and that may be why you are experiencing the unwanted mold growth on the exterior of the casings. A hotter smoker will not be conducive to mold growth. The uneven fill on your casings also has me wondering a bit. By any chance are you stuffing with a filler funnel on a grinder? Or are you using an actual piston type sausage stuffer.

@PaPaSmokes You will have no issues! Just remember the law of 40 degrees to 140 degrees inside of 4 hours! Then lean to the higher temps in a shorter amount of time. This is what #1 cure is used for.

@salmonmaster said in [To EQ or not EQ\.\.\.](/post/110124): > @processhead so are you just rubbing the cure ingredients on the meat, and into refer for 10 days, or does the weight of the meat have to do with the time in refer? Take another look at my previous post regarding question about dry rub cure or stitch pumping a wet brine @salmonmaster. With a brine, I use the same ratio of dry ingredients but adjust the amount up by 10% to compensate for the extra weight and dilution of the added water. When using a dry cure, the thickness of the meat is the major factor on the cure time in the frig. Salt and cure #1 penetrate and diffuse through lean meat at a fairly predictable rate. The dry ingredients will take twice as long to penetrate and equalize through a 2 inch thick piece of meat as it will a 1 inch thick piece. So the weight is less of a factor than the thickness and shape of the meat. With the the dry cure ingredients applied to both sides of 1 inch thick 10 lb pork belly, you could expect it to fully penetrate more quickly compared to a 5 inch thick pork loin that only weighs 5 lbs and with dry rub cure applied to all sides. So it is more about the shape and thickness of the meat than the weight that determines the time to cure using dry rub cures, all other things being equal, and with no cure accelerators added. I usually refrigerate a dry cured pork belly a minimum of 7 days. For thicker pieces, that I stitch pump, I usually go for 7-10 days. Stitch pumping a piece of meat actually brings the cure ingredients into the center of the piece of meat and to some degree it cures from the inside outwards to the exterior. When done correctly, stitch pumping should evenly exposes all the meat to the curing ingredients in the liquid brine. In actual practice that probably doesn't happen, and some equalization of the concentrations takes place while curing in the refrigerator. If you get a chance to read the section on meat curing Kutas's book, he does a good job of explaining the penetration of dry cures vs. time and contrasts dry curing vs. stitch pumping or artery pumping a cut of meat like a ham.

@PaPaSmokes I only use the EQ method on bacon, ham, and other whole cuts of meat. Here is what I like about the EQ method: If you think about it, the EQ method is the same as following any other recipe in that you add the salt, sugar and cure #1 in amounts that are directly proportional to the green weight of the meat. The only exception here is that for cure #1 and salt you need to stay within a certain range to ensure food safety and curing efficacy. I think what gets some people is the math behind this, but there are some very easy to use calculators that makes it super simple. You don't need to be a math major to understand the EQ method, but it is a good idea to understand enough to make sure that the curing method you using falls within the safe and effective use of sodium nitrite curing agents. For cure #1 it is pretty simple if you just remember 1 ounce per 25lbs of meat . I use one that looks like this. 

Ridley Acres said in To EQ or not EQ...:

The sub zero temps allowed me to cold smoke for a very long time and then I used gas smoker to get it close and finished to safe temp in my house oven. (which made the house smell amazing!)

Humm, your cold smoking sounds vaguely familiar to me. 🙄 🙄

Brine solution Make sure you don’t brine meats that have already been brined, such as supermarket stocked pork, which has been treated with sodium phosphate and water to make it juicier. 40-50% of 100% meat 4lbs brine to 10lbs butts When adding ingredients to brine, the basic rule is to add ingredients that readily dissolve in water (phosphates, salt, sugar) first and then those that disperse (starch, carrageenan). 1. Add phosphates to water and dissolve. 2. Add sugars, soy proteins and dissolve. 3. Add salt and dissolve. 4. Add sodium nitrite and dissolve. 5. Add cure accelerator (sodium erythorbate) and dissolve. 6. Add starch and carrageenan. 7. Meat Brine Strength in Degrees Time of Curing Poultry 21 overnight Bacon 50 - 65 1½ - 2 days per pound Spareribs 50 - 55 1 week Loins 55 - 65 2 weeks Ham, shoulders 65 - 75 4 days per pound Fish 80 2 hours If meat were stitch pumped with pickle first, these times would be shortened in half. Notice that sugar, though often added to brine after it is made, does not participate in the calculation for making a brine of a particular strength. That is due to the following reasons: • A lot of brines do not call for sugar at all. • A lot of brines call for different amounts of sugar (more sugar for bacon, less sugar for ham). • People use different sugars, dextrose, maple syrup or honey. Based on those findings we can come up with the general formula for 60º SAL brine: water 1 gal. (8.33lbs.) 3.80 kg salt 1.32 lbs. 600 g Cure #1 4.2 oz. 120 g sugar 1.5 oz. 42 g If you need stronger or weaker brine change the amount of salt according to the salt tables. The amount of Cure #1 should remain the same. How Long to Brine Brine curing is slower than dry curing as you can add only about 26% of salt to water before the solution becomes saturated (100° SAL). Adding more salt will only cause it to settle down on the bottom of the container. On the other hand dry mix consists of 100% salt, although it may contain some sugar and other ingredients in small quantities. For this reason dry salting is the fastest curing method as the more salt in a curing solution, the faster the curing process. The disadvantage of dry curing is that the drawn out moisture is not replaced so the yield of the dry cured products is smaller. Curing time estimates for the traditional wet cure method (brine strength 50–65 degrees) are as follows: • 11 days per inch of thickness of the meat. • About 3 ½ to 4 days per pound for 20 lbs. hams and picnics. • 3 days per pound for smaller cuts. Those curing times were practiced in the past when preservation was the main concern. In today’s era these times may be shortened by 1 day per pound, i.e. a 15 pound ham will be cured for 45 days. Curing times may be further reduced if brine curing is preceded by stitch pumping. To shorten the curing time in half, the meat is pumped with 10% pump and then immersed in the same solution. At home a good practice will be to pump meat with 7% pump and then immerse it in the remaining curing solution. At the end of curing the ham should gain about 7% in weight. Rinsing and Drying After meat is taken from dry cure or brine, it must be rinsed and washed in cold water. A good idea is to soak meat for 2 hours under running water. Smaller pieces may be soaked for 30 minutes only. If a soaking container is used, water should be changed every 30 minutes. Soaking removes some of the salt which is concentrated in the outside area. After that the ham is hung for 12-24 hours to dry. Products like country hams must be cold smoked but the majority of products are smoked with hot smoke and then cooked inside of the smokehouse. It is a good idea to hold products at 110-115° F (44 - 46° C) without applying smoke for 30-60 minutes to dry the surface. The vents should be fully opened to allow for moisture removal. Then the vent is readjusted to 1/4 open position and hot smoke is introduced. It should be noted that in today’s era smoke is applied to flavor meat only and it can be stopped at any time as long as we continue to cook the product to the FSIS recommended temperature. Generally hams are hot smoked between 3 and 5 hours. It is a good idea to keep on raising the smoking temperature as the process continues in order to shorten cooking time. Cooked hams like all other cooked meats and sausages are showered with cold water to bring the temperature down. In the case of a large ham the showering may continue for 30 minutes or longer. Or smoked until internal temperature of 135-137 then finished in 170 water until internal temperature of 147 for whole cut meat and 160 for ground meat all types, excludes Poultry.

Denny O said in Pad See Ew (Thai wide rice noodles with dark soysauces):

Dave in AZ I just don’t know how you do it Dave!

Heh… you might notice, I didn’t cook anything for last 4 days! When I get home from a work trip, I have built up a big urge to cook, and my wife wants a break, so I go to town! 😉 thx for the kind words!

@Full100-0 welcome, I see you just joined and this is your 1st post! Stanley and Adam Marianski have some fish content in their book Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausages. Your question is confusing... you say without having to use pork or beef fat. But a binder only binds fat and water to protein. So, if you are using tuna, what is the fat being used? If no fat, then what are you trying to bind? If you are just trying to get water bound to meat, then by far the #1 binder is various sodium phosphates. There are 5 or 6 uses all different chemicals, but generally referred to as sodium phosphate. Sodium tripoly phosphate STPP is common. Sometimes referred to as cold phosphates also. Walton's sells both versions in different minimum amounts, can't really tell exact composition, but will work well to bind water. Walton's also sells one called SureGel that is whey proteins (probably NFDM), phosphates, and gelatin. It works well and does have the phosphates needed to bond water. P.s. i think if you are making a tuna sausage, that is so far outside the bounds of what defines a "summer sausage", that you can't really use that term without just confusing everyone. It is like saying you want to build an airplane, but one that only goes underwater... it's not an airplane anymore. Same thing, summer sausage has a loose definition (pork/beef/venison, 25% fat or so, particular spice mix, fermented or faked with acid, smoked). So, maybe you can tell a bit more about the fish sausage without fat you're trying to make, ingredients and rough percentages, cooking method, flavors? If I try to tell you anything about summer sausage, I can tell it won't help you with a nofat tuna ;)

@Jesser All same as @salmonmaster 1. I wouldn't vacuum seal for sous vide, because I'm too cheap to use the bag lol. Ziploc works fine. However, since summer sausage is a moist sausage with zero drying, I would just toss it into essential directly. I use the fibrous casings to make Taylor Pork Roll more than SS, but it is essentially the same, and I toss it in. 2. I do summer sausage and Pork Roll and SPAM all to less than 150f. I use a lot of fat and dont want any fat out. So 140f for 12 min, or 145f internal for 5 min both do full lethality treatment. Particularly if I used cheese. Cheese... the #1 reason for hitemp cheese is summer sausage, it is for when you for sure want to keep good cheese chunk definition without melting. I WOULD use hitemp cheese for SS. Everything else I use normal cheese, but I like a bit of melt. If for some reason you use normal cheese, I would target 140f for 12 min myself. 3. Using the SV means snacksticks are always moist, so you don't get dried out wrinkled casings, they stay taut. The ice bath fast temp drop is key to keeping them adhered to sticks. Then let them dry and bloom on a rack for 30 min or so.

@Dave-in-AZ could you fellas answer a couple more questions? I would appreciate it. #1 summer sausage using fibrous casings after they are smoked are you putting in bags and vacuum down before you put in Sous vide or putting in SV without bags? #2 in summer sausage since your water in Sous vide is not over 155 degrees have you used normal mild or sharp cheddar cheese? If so how did it compare with using high temp cheese in your summer sausage? #3 with meat sticks I realize after you smoke you have to put in bags and vacuum them down before putting in SV but does your sticks always come out with tight casings? One of the biggest problems with making sticks is getting a tight casings. The only way I have been able to always achieve tight casings is to smoke low and slow to my finish temp. This takes 9 to 11 hours sometimes. Using a SV Will really speed up the process. Do you ever run into a casing problem using a SV? Again thanks for sharing your knowledge!

@samspade I used eye of round because you want as little fat as possible to reduce oxidation. Dave’s videos that he referred to are good, but I went a different way and it came out good except for the first time that I tried without cure and it was a little rancid. I cured the whole muscle as you would any other whole muscle with cure #1 and after the cure, I used a slicer and sliced the meat a little thin and then used a dehydrator. If you slice it thin then you will not get the ring that Dave is talking about, it will actually come out much like the store bought product. Try it and get your biscuits ready it is easy and worth it in my opinion.

Thanks for the compliments. I was really pleased with the flavor of the bacon samples I fried up. I used an extra dark brown sugar in the cure this time, and used the EQ dry rub method that has worked well for me and others in the past. 2.24% Salt 2% Dark Brown Sugar and .25% Cure #1

Yes I have a great suppler for cedar I get it for about 2 dollars a board foot for number #1 or close but I have to mill it all myself

@BRYARRR_80 Dave is spot on, and do NOT use tenderquick at all use cure #1 and whatever else you want, but if you want just chipped beef stick with Dave’s ratios and you will do good. You absolutely want to use sodium erythrobate for its antioxidant properties, trust me the meat will get rancid if not preserved it correctly.

@Mi-Bop-s said in [Canned Pineapple and Pork Rancid Smell](/post/107421): > pork to have rancid smell Oxidation causes rancidity, so make sure you have enough cure #1 and add sodium erythorbate and it will prevent any rancidity.

@Jonathon Blue group is still #1 camo is just a lifestyle statement

@salmonmaster you totally can. Hi temp cheese is for when you want the nice cheese particle to retain shape, so for things like summer sausage. Sliced things you don't want cheese oozing out of. But for brats, where you're not gonna slice and won't mind some runny cheesy goo, I totally like regular cheese better. So the #1 brat cheese I personally like, is Philly Cheese steak brat. I actually slice Velveeta up in wee cubes, 6mm or so, then freeze before mixing and stuffing so they don't smear. But I live the authentic cheeze wiz taste and texture you get! I'm kinda a recipe purist though, so I use pure beef, not pork, and add diced raw jalapeno (way more green pepper flavor than green peppers themselves IMO, at quantitiesyou can put into a sausage), amd dehydrated onions. 2nd favorite is kinda replicating Johnsonville cheese brats... pork shoulder 8mm grind, cure1, coarse shredded cheddar cheese, 1.9% salt, 0.5% paprika, 0.5% black pepper. 10% frozen pulled pork broth as the liquid. Only other one I felt cheese was strongly a part of the flavor, was reuben brats. Swiss cheese is pretty dry and hi melt point already, I've tried adding that. Of course 100% brisket, cure1, 2% salt, mustard seed, juniper berry, bay leaves, black pepper, coriander seed. Do NOT recommend adding kraut, save that for putting on top! ;)

@kyle fantastic, the #1 salami book IMO. Great book!

@hunters-stick said in [Dried venison sausage](/post/105587): > ( usually #2) If under 30 days, you should be using cure #1.

I haven't been doing much with curing things. I have made bacon a number of times using the EQ method of curing. I did some reading before I started making bacon. One of the things I noticed is that one of the recipes is calling for Cure #2, and one is calling for cure #1. They are different and used for different purposes. I would think that you would want to use the cure #1 for jerky. The cure calculator that I use starts with the weight of the meat and then calculates out the amount of water, sugar, salt and cure #1. You can change the percentages of the water, salt and sugar, but the cure #1 is locked at .25% of the total weight of the water and meat. For 4 pounds of meat the calculator calls for 762.9 grams of water which is about 1 2/3 cups of water and 4.54 grams of cure #1 that is around 1.3 teaspoons. What am I missing about this?

Tex_77
Reporting data errors and moonshine.

@mdseaside Thanks for the link, good info and I plan on using it. The only thing I would take issue with is if you want a slight faux smoke ring he arbitrarily adds 10 grams of cure #1 to the rub. I think in most cases this would be excessive

@Spidey said in [What are you hunting/fishing?](/post/105177): > @processhead That is a nice pile of jumbo's! What lake where you on Bitter? I love the glacial lake area for fishing and all the options of different water to fish. Dry Lake #1

@Andrew-N Welcome. I suggest you not assume anything about availability and shipping, and rather just get in contact with the #1 worldwide producer if meat cultures and biotics, Chr. HANSEN. They ship all over, with packages that easily tolerate normal shipping and heat. For example where I live in Phoenix, Arizona. I recently contacted them and rapidly got return emails from both a tech specialist as well as my area sales person. They are a global company, and their web page lists South Africa as one of their regions, with an email contact for SA of general_enquiriesZA@chr-hansen.com. Here is their webpage, where you can further research contacting them: https://www.chr-hansen.com/en/food-cultures-and-enzymes/global-distributors-fce Here is their contact page for their South Africa office: https://www.chr-hansen.com/en/contact/za-centurion Good luck!

I am with @Idaho-Smokey I think the reason for the differences is the difference between cure #1 and cure #2. Cure #2 has nitrates and nitrites. The nitrates break down into nitrites, which break down into nitric oxide which provides the curing power. So, because we are holding for a shorter period of time than normal for using cure #2 they might have been calculating it by the amount of Nitrites in the cure, knowing that all the nitrate wont break down into nitrites in that time. However, the nitrates in cure #1 are a very small amount.....it seems like a lot of cure for a 4 lb roast.

@HerbcoFood Sounds similar to mine. I use one called "Pop's Brine". I question the 2 tablespoons per gallon. I believe it is still within the safe level but I find that amount of "Cure" unnecessary. The other is the use of "Cure #2", That is used for sausages and other meats that are for a longer cure time than those that are measured in days or weeks up to 4 or so? Here is mine, 1 gallon of pure clean quality water 1 cup non-iodized kosher or canning salt 1 cup white sugar 1 cup brown sugar (or 2 cups brown and omit the white sugar) 1/2 cup corned beef spices 2 tablespoons crushed juniper berries 1 tablespoon of Cure #1 (Prague powder, DQ curing salt or other, not Morton's Quick Cure or Insta Cure) Dissolve all and mix in food-safe container, stir until clear, then chill. Side note: It needs to have the sodium nitrite level at a maximum of 6.25%. I use this as reference: Computing equivalency, for 100 gallons of curing brine, you add 24 lbs. of curing salt to 100 gallons of water and mix. That is .24 lbs, or 3.84 oz. of curing salt to 1 gallon of water maximum. My recipe calls for 1 tablespoon of curing salt to 1 gallon of water. A level tablespoon is .88 of an ounce. Heaping is approx. 1 ounce. Either is fine. Neither comes close to the maximum amount allowed, but just enough to do the job. Curing at Maximum, plus with injection, requires 48 hours of cure time maximum. This process uses less than one third the curing salts and a longer curing time to tenderize and flavor the meat. You must cover the product until it floats off the bottom of the container, then weight it down to stay submersed in the brine, leaving no area to be exposed to air. At minimum the cure takes ¼”/day plus a min of 2 more days (cure penetrates both sides), a 2” thick brisket takes 4 days plus 2 = 6day minimum cure time When the curing time is completed Take out the beautifully cured "corned beef" (because that's what it is at this point), and wash off all of the brine and spice. Then, put it in some clean water to soak for an hour to soak out any of the extra salt and rinse it once again. Lightly pat it with a paper towel, but not too dry. With the corned beef being damp proceed to the next step, the Pastrami rub. Note: I will do a double batch of the brine in a 5 gallon food safe bucket with a lid for 2-10 pound ish brisket flats. Then comes the process to make pastrami, reseason it and smoke it to make your corned meat into pastrami. You will lose approximately 40% of the weight during the smoking process depending on the cut of meat

@Jamieson22 I will play.... #1 PK, #2 dehydrator, #3 pellet smoker. To be sure tho, I think you should send me some so I can be sure of my guess. They all look great, nice job

gheyden Awesome! Glad you tried it and being from Wisconsin you think it’s spot on. Really appreciate the feedback. Welcome to Meatgistics. It’s a great group of people willing to share all the information they have.

@Ken1261 Can you believe they used to be #1 for feed lot beef in the US?

djman69465 said in 80/20 ground beef extruded jerky in a dehydrator:

kyle LOL ill try and watch the my “language”.

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

Go with #1. Also, I never use vac bags in the sv and use it a LOT. The sv does not get you the drying aspect of thermal processing which is important to put the thin "rind" on the outside. When doing bambi dogs and bambi bologna, I don't use the smoker at all. Don't want the rind on either of those

@gus4416 said in [First time Braunschweiger success](/post/102739): > @OleSmokey is this like liver wurst If you look at the meat block and the seasonings added, liverwurst and braunschweiger are very similar. One key distinction is braunschweiger will often have cure #1 in it and may have a light smoke after it has been stuffed and cooled. Liverwurst will usually have neither of these.

@ND-Mike Braunschweiger - 10 lbs 5 lbs pork liver cut into chunks and soaked in water then drained 2-1/2 lbs pork back fat 2-1/2 lbs pork shoulder fatty chunks Onions 907 grams (2 lbs) Chopped and Cooked in a little oil and 2 tbs sugar until slightly browned. 5 tbs Pickling salt 1 tbs ground White pepper 1 tbs ground Mustard 1/2 tsp ground Allspice 1/2 tsp ground Marjoram 1/2 tsp ground Nutmeg 1/2 tsp ground Ginger 1/2 tsp ground Sage 1/2 tsp ground Cloves 2 tsp Cure #1 2 cups Non-fat Dry Milk powder for binder Put onions & liver in food processor with metal blade and blend until emulsified Put meats & fat in freezer till just slightly frozen on outside Grind back fat & shoulder through 10mm plate then a second grind through 1/8 inch plate Mix meat & fat and seasonings/cure until mixture is sticky Mix onions/liver with meat/fat/seasonings/cure. Add Non-fat Dry Milk powder and mix Put mix in food processor with metal blade and blend until smooth and a even color. Stuff into appx. 4 inch wide fibrous casings Poach in water 160 degrees for approximately 1 hour and 40 minutes (1 minute cooking for 1 mm width of casing) until internal temperature is 152 degrees Put sausage into cold water shower and/or cold water bath to cool rapidly. Place in refrigerator for several hours or overnight. After cooling in refrigerator then cold smoke for 2-4 hours

@Tony-Bensel First welcome to the community, this is a great place to get answers. Everyone is always willing to help without being judgmental. I would go with option #1, I think you will find that a lot of people are starting to use there sous vide this way. I believe it was Parksider that first mentioned doing this way.

This morning I cured a pork loin and a pork butt for Canadian bacon and buckboard bacon aka cottage bacon. I am using the EQ method, and pumped them with a brine using salt, cane sugar, and cure #1. I may be doing some smoking about Christmas.     

@badexpresso said in [Sure Cure and Encapsulated Citric Acid Use](/post/100298): > To answer my own question: > > What is Sure Cure (Salt for Curing Meat) - Seasoning and Additives 104 Sure Cure goes by many names Cure #1, Prague Powder, Instacure #1 , but it is all the same stuff. They are all roughly 94% salt and 6% sodium nitrite, and all used at the recommended rate of 1 ounce per 25 lbs of meat.

No I don’t think there is much citric acid in mix believe the ingredient list goes from the most to the least if that makes sense. You will still need to add your cure #1 to the sausage then stuff and hold overnight. Hope this helps I always put in my own high temp cheese about 1 pound for each ten pounds of sausage have also put in dried red and green peppers in the sausage I like how it came out. Good luck it is fun to play around with some of the seasoning and this is one I have added this and that to.

@Chris-Rousemiller said in [When to use cure \#1 with jerky](/post/98716): > Trying to find some info about when I should use cure (#1 Prague) in jerky making (venison, beef). Is it helpful, necessary, wise, a waste of time/cure etc? Also - how to use it with various ingredients - such as wet marinades, sauces, dry spices? @Tex_77 reply has the links that provide the detailed explanation. The short answer is yes. Cure #1 added to jerky is a good idea with a number of benefits.

wanda0554 they are fine. I started smoking mine 1 hour at 120* no smoke. Then add smoke. Then 1 hour at 130* then 2 hours at 140* then I put it in a large stock pot with 170* water and put probes in meat and pull at 160* . It only takes minutes to reach. Then put in an ice bath. You still get the smoke flavor.

@processhead Hi Paul I haven’t been doing bacon long enough to actually be able to dial in the saltiness yet but my last batch was pretty close to where I want my taste notes to be. While I was slicing I had some bigger left over pieces so I was processing I cooked that up and I thought it was a bit salty for my taste but after packaging and setting overnight my wife cook some up for breakfast and it seemed to mellow, now maybe thinner pieces are less salty but it was quite good! I have in the past soaked in water for 24 hrs to remove some salt (of course changing the water occasionally) right now I am just using salt sugar and prauge #1 @1.7% if you have any suggestions, tip etc. I would love to give it a try. I am going to inject my next batch to see how that works. Going to use the blue ribbon maple cure with booster.

Brine solution Make sure you don’t brine meats that have already been brined, such as supermarket stocked pork, which has been treated with sodium phosphate and water to make it juicier. 40-50% of 100% meat 4lbs brine to 10lbs butts When adding ingredients to brine, the basic rule is to add ingredients that readily dissolve in water (phosphates, salt, sugar) first and then those that disperse (starch, carrageenan). 1. Add phosphates to water and dissolve. 2. Add sugars, soy proteins and dissolve. 3. Add salt and dissolve. 4. Add sodium nitrite and dissolve. 5. Add cure accelerator (sodium erythorbate) and dissolve. 6. Add starch and carrageenan. 7. Meat Brine Strength in Degrees Time of Curing Poultry 21 overnight Bacon 50 - 65 1½ - 2 days per pound Spareribs 50 - 55 1 week Loins 55 - 65 2 weeks Ham, shoulders 65 - 75 4 days per pound Fish 80 2 hours If meat were stitch pumped with pickle first, these times would be shortened in half. Notice that sugar, though often added to brine after it is made, does not participate in the calculation for making a brine of a particular strength. That is due to the following reasons: • A lot of brines do not call for sugar at all. • A lot of brines call for different amounts of sugar (more sugar for bacon, less sugar for ham). • People use different sugars, dextrose, maple syrup or honey. Based on those findings we can come up with the general formula for 60º SAL brine: water 1 gal. (8.33lbs.) 3.80 kg salt 1.32 lbs. 600 g Cure #1 4.2 oz. 120 g sugar 1.5 oz. 42 g If you need stronger or weaker brine change the amount of salt according to the salt tables. The amount of Cure #1 should remain the same. How Long to Brine Brine curing is slower than dry curing as you can add only about 26% of salt to water before the solution becomes saturated (100° SAL). Adding more salt will only cause it to settle down on the bottom of the container. On the other hand dry mix consists of 100% salt, although it may contain some sugar and other ingredients in small quantities. For this reason dry salting is the fastest curing method as the more salt in a curing solution, the faster the curing process. The disadvantage of dry curing is that the drawn out moisture is not replaced so the yield of the dry cured products is smaller. Curing time estimates for the traditional wet cure method (brine strength 50–65 degrees) are as follows: • 11 days per inch of thickness of the meat. • About 3 ½ to 4 days per pound for 20 lbs. hams and picnics. • 3 days per pound for smaller cuts. Those curing times were practiced in the past when preservation was the main concern. In today’s era these times may be shortened by 1 day per pound, i.e. a 15 pound ham will be cured for 45 days. Curing times may be further reduced if brine curing is preceded by stitch pumping. To shorten the curing time in half, the meat is pumped with 10% pump and then immersed in the same solution. At home a good practice will be to pump meat with 7% pump and then immerse it in the remaining curing solution. At the end of curing the ham should gain about 7% in weight. Rinsing and Drying After meat is taken from dry cure or brine, it must be rinsed and washed in cold water. A good idea is to soak meat for 2 hours under running water. Smaller pieces may be soaked for 30 minutes only. If a soaking container is used, water should be changed every 30 minutes. Soaking removes some of the salt which is concentrated in the outside area. After that the ham is hung for 12-24 hours to dry. Products like country hams must be cold smoked but the majority of products are smoked with hot smoke and then cooked inside of the smokehouse. It is a good idea to hold products at 110-115° F (44 - 46° C) without applying smoke for 30-60 minutes to dry the surface. The vents should be fully opened to allow for moisture removal. Then the vent is readjusted to 1/4 open position and hot smoke is introduced. It should be noted that in today’s era smoke is applied to flavor meat only and it can be stopped at any time as long as we continue to cook the product to the FSIS recommended temperature. Generally hams are hot smoked between 3 and 5 hours. It is a good idea to keep on raising the smoking temperature as the process continues in order to shorten cooking time. Cooked hams like all other cooked meats and sausages are showered with cold water to bring the temperature down. In the case of a large ham the showering may continue for 30 minutes or longer. Or smoked until internal temperature of 135-137 then finished in 170 water until internal temperature of 147 for whole cut meat and 160 for ground meat all types, excludes Poultry.

@Mean-Dean Yes I finished at the correct temp but great to know that water won’t affect things. I do use cure #1 also. Thanks

I hope you are planning on doing a heat lethality treatment for the bear, up to 165f, and not making classic summer sausage ( which is fermentation, smoke, dry). Bear meat is the #1 carrier for trichinosis, of commonly used meats, according to USFDA. Assuming you ARE going to heat it up enough to kill potential trichinosis, then adding water makes no difference at all for meat fermentation with flc, or any culture really. Adding water makes it easier to stuff so you don't get air pockets, say 10% water. I do 3 to 4" chubs with 10% water. The 2 things that seem to keep out air pockets for me, is have the 1.5" stuffing tube buried about 2" into the sausage. So the meat flows out, and you can see it backflowing up around the tube towards my hand, and I keep pressure on the casing so it almost seems it might pop. That meat backflow seems to get rid of any air. The 2nd thing is I poke 50 holes in the casing ahead of time, and you can hear air hissing out as you stuff it. Hope that helps;)

@Jonathon definitely true. Care in the field is #1. I won't even touch venison if I dont know the hunter and their handling methods. It is my favorite protein, but very susceptible to off flavors. Well cared for venison is quite mild and never gamey. Enjoy all that jerky, you earned it!

@Deepwoodsbutcher I wanted to do as much of the entire process myself as possible, but the one thing I always try to tell people is that they have done studies into the "gamey" flavor of some deer and the #1 issue is how it is processed. Having taken good care of the carcass (it being a younger buck didn't hurt I am sure) made both the tenderloins and back strap taste so much better than ever would have imagined! I am thrilled with how that went! Now, the 1st load of jerky is in the smoker, as soon as that is done I will take pics and we will do final tally of how much jerky I started with vs how much I finish with. The tender jerky and beef usually lets us keep about 3/4 of the green weight, but with deer, I think it will be a little lower final weight, probably lose about 50%. I wouldn't be disappointed to end up with 25 lb of finished jerky for the winter! I did one in |Teriyaki-Jerky-Seasoning and the other of course was |Walton-s-Bold-Jerky-Seasoning

@zbigjeff I wanted to share for 2 reasons. #1 to maybe help someone new to canning not make the same mistake, and #2 to show that even experienced people can make a mistake that could have been a lot worse all because of a lack of focus.

This is a fairly standard recipe that a friend shared with me. I am pretty happy with it although will be looking to remove the TQ and replace with salt and Cure #1 FOR 10 POUNDS OF SAUSAGE 7.5 lbs lean ground beef or venison or mixture of both 2.5 lb ground pork butt DRY INGREDIENTS: 3 inch or larger fibrous casing 4 TBSP Wright’s Liquid Smoke (optional if not smoking) 3 TSP black pepper 10 TBSP Morton’s Tender Quick meat cure 4 TBSP sugar 2 TSP red pepper flakes 3 TSP coriander 1 TSP ginger 3 TSP ground mustard 1 TSP garlic powder 1.5 cups non-fat dry milk 1 pint water Encapsulated Citric Acid, Add and mix well just before stuffing. Use at manufacturers recommended rate. Will vary depending on manufacturer. Mix the dry ingredients with the water thoroughly; use a blender if available. Mix the meat together, then add the water and seasonings, and mix all thoroughly. (Option 1) Stuff and refrigerate overnight. Smoke the next day. (Option 2) If stuffing the second day, pack the meat in a covered container and let stand a minimum of overnight, maximum of two days.

@dawg I don’t know if this recipe would be as good as Walton’s but here’s the recipe: German not so sweet bologna recipe for 3lbs of beef and pork mix * 3 tbs salt * 1 tbs fine grind black pepper * 1 teaspoon dry mustard * 1 teaspoon ground celery seed * 2 tbs garlic powder * 1 teaspoon coriander * 1 teaspoon nutmeg * 2 tbs sugar * 2 tbs light brown sugar * 1/2 cup cold water * 1/3 cups non fat dry milk powder * 1 teaspoon mace or allspice * 1 teaspoon onion powder * 2 tbs paprika * Cure #1 per instructions

@mrobisr I failed to follow up on this post, but the dried beef went rancid. It was still eatable, but just had that fat rancid flavor. I have since added cure #1 to alleviate that problem.

Thanks so much for the quick reply Dave. Makes my day on when I can stuff and smoke.

TheBandit Papa & Process have hit the nail on the head. I don’t mess with any of the other stuff though, not even the ice. If they really need more of a cleaning after the soaking, I have some small bottle/pipe tube brushes that will finish the job.

cdavis
Thx Charley. Couldn’t get to sleep, thought I might as well type 😉 I love duck, and someone making an all duck stick got me excited lol.

processhead I use the same 50% venison 40% pork and 10% beef fat with both my beef sticks and summer sausage.

Anyone replacing the auger stud with the new replacement stud be aware the old stud is held in with Red Loctite as well as the threads. You need to apply just a bit of heat to the old stud to help ease it out. It will come loose without the heat, but you will need to put the drive end in a vise with soft jaws on the drive shaft in order to break it loose. Heat make the job much easier, doesn’t take much. You should re-apply Loctite to the threads when you install the new stud. This will insure both a seal and that the stud will stay attached. Just a bit of advice since I just replace mine with the replacement Walton’s sent me to repair my wear problem. Thanks for the great customer service Jonathan and Austin!

wdaly thx 😉

hankus46
Thx:) However, it sounds like you’re more experienced than me probably! I’ve just done small 1kg ones.
But I dont see any reason you can’t vacuum tumble at all. Not sure about replacing the mixing… tumbling is usually intended to spread injection liquid around inside large hams or bacon. Mixing on other hand is intended to extract protein, which is really what you want for formed hams. The meat chunks are small enough to cure from outside pretty quick. But I’m sure tumbling also extracts protein, just not sure it actually adds anything to formed ham.

Love to hear how it goes!

Denny O I thought you might like that.

Aren’t we all just getting started $$,$$$.